Biodiesel

[Deleted member 50714]

I just want want is optimal for my Sprinter and Bio Diesel, according to Mercedes, is not optimal.

 

[old-geezer]

I just want want is optimal for my Sprinter and Bio Diesel, according to Mercedes, is not optimal.

Same here. Sticker by the filler cap says Max B5 Biodiesel allowed. I lack the knowledge to argue with it so that's what I do.

 

[220629]

I couldn't stay away.

Quoting specific official literature.

Most everyone picks and chooses what they want to apply from the Owner's Manual and other literature. I know that I do.

Eg. - I prefer official MB documents like this vs the Cliff Notes of the Owner's Manual.
Avanti posted this early on.
MB Biodiesel Brochure 2015
View attachment biodiesel_Brochure5 1-2015.pdf

5% is Approved with no qualifications beyond ULSD (ULSD = by law in USA). 20% is Restricted by Mercedes Benz "generally not approved". That does not = Prohibited. The Owner's Manual Cliff Notes aren't always complete.



I would hope that owner's aren't using a ScangaugeII, Ultragauge, other performance monitor, or a monitor device provided by your insurance company. It is expressly prohibited by MB. Not only can it harm your engine systems, but the use is specifically stated as a safety issue which increases the risk of accident.

From the 2016 Owner's Manual Pg. 26

Diagnostics connection

!!! WARNING
If you connect equipment to the diagnostics
connection in the vehicle, it may affect the
operation of the vehicle systems. As a result,
the operating safety of the vehicle could be
affected. There is a risk of an accident.
Do not connect any equipment to a
diagnostics connection in the vehicle.

Back to topic.

vic

 

[Deleted member 50714]

I still endeavor to use whatever is optimal for my sweetie.

 

[hotfudge]

And the beat goes on....! One thing I've learned in my 4.5 years of owning a M-B product.....if you do as they say, write or imply, there will never be an argument when things go south. So far, so good.

 

[alehorton]

Not to be a too much of a poke in the eye but this thread is about how to use biodiesel, not how to not use it, we already know what MB says, they say CYA.

 

[Deleted member 50714]

https://assets.mbusa.com/vcm/CAC_RAPMD/Biodiesel Facts.pdf

 

[220629]

https://assets.mbusa.com/vcm/CAC_RAPMD/Biodiesel Facts.pdf

Is dragging out old superseded documents helpful? Trotting out old documentation just to support your views borders on scare tactics.

Your document was last updated 2010.

Not to be a too much of a poke in the eye but this thread is about how to use biodiesel, not how to not use it, we already know what MB says, they say CYA.

With that in mind.

First, biofuel percentages up to 5% in USA fuel need no special labelling. Pipelines and distribution are shared. Many owners are using some bio blend without being aware.

This is dated 2013. Per Mercedes, after acknowledging that regular use may have risk, it's ok for Illinois residents to use B20, so occasional use by other owners certainly can't be a problem.

View attachment Illinois biodiesel brochure_Final 2013.pdf

And this is dated 2015. It is similar in content to the Illinois document.

I couldn't stay away.

Quoting specific official literature.

Most everyone picks and chooses what they want to apply from the Owner's Manual and other literature. I know that I do.

Eg. - I prefer official MB documents like this vs the Cliff Notes of the Owner's Manual.
Avanti posted this early on.
MB Biodiesel Brochure 2015
2015 PDF

5% is Approved with no qualifications beyond ULSD (ULSD = by law in USA). 20% is Restricted by Mercedes Benz "generally not approved". That does not = Prohibited. The Owner's Manual Cliff Notes aren't always complete.



...

vic

 

[woundedpig]

Illinois document seems to be a self-serving local marketing gambit designed to not lose MB sales. As far as I know, no other state has this. Does that not make you wonder? Why isn’t this language distributed in a national document by MB? “You can use B20....”. In big letters. B20 is prevalent in Illinois- not like Minnesota, but problematic.

 

[smiller]

Not to beat this point to death, but shouldn't we wait until someone, anyone, actually has a problem linked to >B5<B20 biodiesel usage before all the wringing of hands? Do we really need to debate the issue when probably millions of tanks have been consumed without problems?

 

[woundedpig]

MB’s 2015 biodiesel brochure shows pictures of component issues related to higher% biodiesel use. MB included these pix for a reason, I’m sure.

 

[SSTraveler]

"Everything you've ever wanted is on the other side of fear!"
(George Addair)

 

[CB1945]

"Everything you've ever wanted is on the other side of fear!"
(George Addair)

There are thousands of MB Sprinters traveling millions of miles per year across North America burning fuel with B5 or whatever and logging many hundred thousand miles without problems.
And these Unity Sprinters that, for the most part, do under 20,000 miles per year are different How? Regular service is the Key.......
Service Anually and Drive it like you Stole it is my advice.

 

[woundedpig]

"Everything you've ever wanted is on the other side of fear!"
(George Addair)

? A little projection here?

— Insert sage saying here-

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

B Franklin

 

[220629]

No old sayings, some facts.

MB’s 2015 biodiesel brochure shows pictures of component issues related to higher% biodiesel use. MB included these pix for a reason, I’m sure.

If you read more closely you should notice that those pictures are related to off-grade diesel fuel. Off grade dino diesel can do those things too.

Quoted from the 2015 Mercedes brochure picture captions. The Illinois pictures have similar notes.
*****
Examples of damage that can be caused by the use of biodiesel fuel
include the following:

• Clogging of fuel filter caused by soaps, which may be formed by
biodiesel components such as products of aging or products due to
production shortcomings, which may contaminate biodiesel blends.
• Clogging of fuel filter due to the growth of microbes in free water
containing biodiesel blends.
• Fuel gelling under cold climate conditions, because biodiesel may
have poor cold flow properties depending from the feedstock and
because additives in biodiesel and conventional diesel are sometimes
incompatible. [Note: Additives within commercial ATSM grades are not a problem.]
• Corrosion and sticking of low-and-high pressure fuel system
components such as pumps and injectors, especially a#er a long
storage period of the vehicle, due to the formation of sticky polymers
and acids during biodiesel aging/oxidation.
• Sludge formation in engine oil due to the formation of biodiesel aging
products.
• Deposit formation on piston rings, oxygen sensors and exhaust gas
recirculation (EGR) system parts.
****

But those looking for reasons reasons to avoid B20 at all costs can use those pictures to justify their fears.

I agree with Smiller. I have offered similar comments. With all of the commercial ATSM B20 produced and consumed in the USA, where are the Mercedes, not just Sprinter, horror stories from owners?

Out of curiosity I did the Google on the Internets. (As a T1N owner I don't have a dog in this race.)

Search phrases.
B20 biofuel damaged my mercedes benz diesel engine = zero hits

Mercedes engine warranty denied B20 biofuel = zero hits

Mercedes blown engine B20 biofuel = zero hits

There were "reports of engine problems" mentioned in some articles, but I found no references to actual data. If B20 use were regularly grenading Mercedes diesel engines I would expect the news would be out there for Google to reveal.

There were hits with various warnings and discussions. Many hits were Sprinter-source discussions.


If you follow the Mercedes guidelines for blue label B20 (not at all difficult), use blue label B20 or not, it ain't gonna matter.

vic

 

[smiller]

Might as well give it up, if anyone wants to worry about this stuff they will, logic notwithstanding.

 

[BTmages]

Watch starting at 13:00 min in, Mercedes rep talking about Biodiesel and Sprinter-Based RV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfW27mnRH5U

 

[woundedpig]

I thought you were going away, Aqua. You and a couple others on the forum either have a serious case of psychological projection, since you see fear and worry in the minds of people you do not know, OR you have the ability to mind read across long distances. Why not let other folks use their prudential judgment in fuel selection and maintenance for their vehicles, and you can do whatever the hell you want? Contrary to what you say, no one is freaking out about biodiesel and it takes only minimum effort to select whatever fuel is desired.

Putting those Google searches in as you did, Aqua, is a perfect example of confirmation bias. You might as well have done a search on biodiesel and end of the world, or biodiesel and marital discord. You aren’t going to find a report of biodiesel engine death, though you might find reports of injector fouling or fuel system plugging, etc. that can cause serious issues with engine performance and breakdowns. You might learn more and even find some technical papers if you did searches on biodiesel and engine problems or engine oil dilution, or fuel systems, or water contamination, storage problems, or algae, etc. You’d find that as of 2017, Cummins recommends fuel additives to target issues caused by ULSD and biodiesel. You’d find that even green Europe has low average biodiesel minimum % requirements and much more stringent regulations for the homogeneity and purity of biodiesel compared with the haphazard standards for biodiesel in the states, where biofuel usage is driven by politics and lobbying, not science.

 

[CB1945]

I thought you were going away, Aqua. You and a couple others on the forum either have a serious case of psychological projection, since you see fear and worry in the minds of people you do not know, OR you have the ability to mind read across long distances. Why not let other folks use their prudential judgment in fuel selection and maintenance for their vehicles, and you can do whatever the hell you want? Contrary to what you say, no one is freaking out about biodiesel and it takes only minimum effort to select whatever fuel is desired.

Putting those Google searches in as you did, Aqua, is a perfect example of confirmation bias. You might as well have done a search on biodiesel and end of the world, or biodiesel and marital discord. You aren’t going to find a report of biodiesel engine death, though you might find reports of injector fouling or fuel system plugging, etc. that can cause serious issues with engine performance and breakdowns. You might learn more and even find some technical papers if you did searches on biodiesel and engine problems or engine oil dilution, or fuel systems, or water contamination, storage problems, or algae, etc. You’d find that as of 2017, Cummins recommends fuel additives to target issues caused by ULSD and biodiesel. You’d find that even green Europe has low average biodiesel minimum % requirements and much more stringent regulations for the homogeneity and purity of biodiesel compared with the haphazard standards for biodiesel in the states, where biofuel usage is driven by politics and lobbying, not science.

Certainly can't dispute your last sentence. The lobbyists and politicians have done a superb job of brainwashing John Q Public with BS.

 

[CJPJ]

I'll want to be the first to offer my MB diesel van: I'll Ginny pig it and run it entirety on b20.
Just need forum members to penny up, go fund me and purchase the bio fuel.