I'll start with these.
START. Get it!!
Please feel free to add to the compilation. Add information only. Please post specific questions to the Talk Section. This is Write-ups.
As always clicking on the blue arrow icon within any quote box will take you to the original post/thread.
A general response for any vehicle is to inspect/clean the battery terminals and all heavy cable connections including grounds.
Autostaretx Dick gives a general test overview.
Icarus gives a good overview for NCV3.
Battery Low Voltage Hard Start Low Charge
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=86851&highlight=cable#post86851
Solenoid Contacts Intermittent
(The easy answer is to replace the starter complete. From there consider a solenoid replacement to create a less expensive spare starter.)
The ECM aka ECU Relay Contacts Can Corrode
Thanks goes to BobLLL.
START. Get it!!
Please feel free to add to the compilation. Add information only. Please post specific questions to the Talk Section. This is Write-ups.
As always clicking on the blue arrow icon within any quote box will take you to the original post/thread.
A general response for any vehicle is to inspect/clean the battery terminals and all heavy cable connections including grounds.
Autostaretx Dick gives a general test overview.
Which is a reasonable voltage for a not-new battery. I wouldn't be surprised if my battery is sitting at about 12.5 volts right now (sitting in street, not run for the last couple of weeks). In a couple more weeks it would probably be at 12.4.I did have the opportunity to measure battery voltage during a non-start episode. The voltage was 12.4
That last question is what a ScanGauge/etc would tell you... you can monitor the system voltage while you're driving. If you'd rather spend about $10 instead of $150, one of those multi-colored LED plugs-into-the-12v-socket battery/charge indicators works too.When I charged the battery, and when I jumped the vehicle the other night, the black cable was clamped to the negative terminal of the battery, not to a frame ground.
Since a charge helps, the headlights don't work during failure, and the battery showed a low voltage (12.4) during failure, it seems that something is definitely afflicting the battery itself intermittently.
Could the charging/jumping possibly fix any of the other problems you describe?
Could it be that some communication between the battery and alternator fails intermittently during certain drives?
(the one i linked to would require adding a $4 cigarette socket plug)
Given the "12.4 when bad" tells me that the alternator probably IS working.
(otherwise you'd be below 12v)
The real test would be measuring under load (such as headlights on) to see how far the battery (post-to-post) voltage drops when the load is applied.
If (for example) the battery had a failed cell or broken internal cell-to-cell connection, the battery voltage would drop a lot under load (2 volts per dead cell, more for a high-resistance intercell connection).
If turning on the headlights (even if they don't light up) does NOT affect the battery voltage, then it's the rest of the vehicle's wiring that's stealing the voltage (or "restricting the current" to be more precise). If the battery is still up above 12v with the headlights trying to be on, you could then measure the voltage from negative post to vehicle metal (should be next to zero drop... if you're seeing more than a volt your meter is bridging the bad cable). Then measure the voltage across each of the fuses in the attached-to-post Power Distribution Block .. again, if you see more than a volt, you've found the culprit.
Corrosion on, or a slightly loose battery post connector can cause this kind'a thing.
The action of attaching the jumper clamps can squish the loose connection back into performing (as well as providing starter power by the jump).
Measuring under load (such as headlights) is key to finding poor connections.
You certainly can usefully go through all of the connection points, undo them, clean the posts, clean the inside of the battery clamps, etc etc ... it won't be wasted effort. Pick up a set of those red and green fabric anti-corrosion washers to drop onto the battery posts.
I tend to try to spend (too much?) time beforehand trying to find (with the voltmeter) where the drop is happening so that i can have more faith that i've actually found and addressed the true problem area.
good luck hunting
--dick
Ah... an NCV3... there have been many reports of failure of the "Y cable" that connects the starter, alternator and battery together.
(there's even a fusible link in the alternator segment).
There are many things that can prevent starter cranking... dead solenoid, dead starter contacts in the ignition switch, and (in the NCV3) sick logic/relays in-between.
*do the following with the key OFF and out of the ignition*
You can test the solenoid (and Y-cable) by locating the starter and (carefully, with the tip of a big screwdriver and being VERY careful to avoid hitting any other metal on the Sprinter) bridging the gap between the two heavy wires on the solenoid (the little cylinder thing on the side of the starter... where the wires attach).
That should make the starter spin (but perhaps not engage).
Now jump from the battery feed wire to the *smallest* wire on the solenoid (avoiding the thicker goes-into-starter wire).
That should cause the solenoid to pull in, and the starter to engage with the flywheel and start cranking the engine.
(beware: this is a diesel.. if there's anyresidual fuel or oil in the cylinders it may fire a chuff or two)
OK... if the first crank (thick wire to thick wire) works but the 2nd didn't, it's the solenoid at fault.
If they both worked, then the ignition key's twist isn't getting electricity down to the solenoid. Look upstream.
If neither worked, and the 2nd (little wire) didn't make the solenoid go CLUNK, then suspect the Y cable.(or engine-to-battery ground connections)
If the solenoid went CLUNK but the starter didn't spin, it's the starter.
Basic Starter Diagnostics 101...
--dick
Icarus gives a good overview for NCV3.
Some Wye Cable Info and links here.Two things, both related. The first is the "Y" cable between the battery, the starter and the alternator, notorious for failing. It is testable, but I would just replace with a new issue one and carry the old one as a spare. You can do it pretty easily or any mechanic (not even Sprinter) can do it in an hour or less.
The second is the starter. Hard to discern which, because both mimic the same symptoms. Once again, a starter is pretty reasonable, available nearly anywhere, even you local NAPA if you have to. Once again, anyone can do it, you don't need a Sprinter "expert" to do so.
I just went through this with my '08. Was fairly reliable, but every once in a while it wouldn't do anything, no click no nothing. Then one day it finally quit so that no amount of cajoling would get it to start. Replaced both with parts on hand, as I was in the middle of a trans continental trip. Had a local MB dealer install since I was not where I could doe the work myself. They charged a couple hundred to install both, using my new parts.
Icarus
PS. I just noticed the model year. Check to see when your "in service" date is, the date your warrantee should have started. That is not the date the van went to RT, but the date the first owner took delivery, often as much as a year after it was sold to RT. You may still be under warrantee by age if not mileage. In that case, call MB, have them tow it in, and let them sort it out. (3 years 36k miles, I see on line...check your dates!_
PPS The battery isolator on the RT is a POS. (Some have been recalled!). Regardless of whether or not RT will pick up the tab, replace it with a BlueSea ACR. The RT one draws about 1 amp 24/7 and will kill your house batteries very quickly. Also shutting off the battery from the control panel does not shut them off, it only shuts off the potential loads. I would install a positive on off switch on the negative terminal of the house batteries and leave them off when not in use. I don't think that leaving the vehicle plugged in all the time does your batteries any real favors. The Triplite inverter charger is not (imho) a very good float charger. I would get them fully charged, then shut the batteries off, and then charge it once every couple of weeks, paying attention to the water level in all the cells, keeping them topped up with distilled water.
Battery Low Voltage Hard Start Low Charge
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=86851&highlight=cable#post86851
Solenoid Contacts Intermittent
(The easy answer is to replace the starter complete. From there consider a solenoid replacement to create a less expensive spare starter.)
Today, I tested solenoids #2, #3 and #4. First, I tested each of them on their starter motor and after removing them from the starter motors, I tested them again. In all cases, these three solenoids were too weak to properly move the bendix.
To make sure that my testing was properly done, I tested starter #6 (that's the new one I carry in the van). It behaved properly, with no hesitation.
My next step was surgery. I dissected solenoid #2.
I separated the coil from the contacts at the rear of the solenoid. Notice the burned copper insert on the starter motor post and the burn on the contactor. This post is where the starter motor connects AND to my surprise, it is also the post where the primary electromagnetic coil connects. I'll say more about this shortly.
(I hate viewing pictures sideways, so I will do one or two at a time.)
The ECM aka ECU Relay Contacts Can Corrode
Watch for the Glow Coil Hint.I agree that the glow plugs/module are probably not the root problem, but the GP glow coil icon not displaying could be a specific symptom.
I don't believe that the infamous Wye cable deteriorating has that specific symptom.
Until otherwise confirmed, I would suggest that if a no start with the lack of a lit glow coil symptom presents, the first action would be ECM relay remove/clean/swap with another (same style). If that produces no results then go from there.
Note:
The glow coil not lit may not be a symptom. The light may just have timed out. The corrosion on the relay contacts is a member reported cure for some intermittent starter issues.
vic
Thanks goes to BobLLL.
I can say with confidence that mine was not a case of the glow plug light going on and off quickly. I stared at the dash while turning the key and it did not come on. And it was a chilly morning. And there was no cranking or solenoid click. Removing & cleaning the ecu relay fixed it. Others have swapped or replaced the relay with the same result. What seems to be happening is the whole start sequence is not initiated, maybe because the ecu is not happy with the voltage (if any) being supplied by the relay at the moment the key is turned on. And like other corrosion or funky connection problems, the problem can be very intermittent and will drive you crazy.
If you park outside like I do, and don't drive a lot during cold weather, it may be that condensation in the fuse/relay box is the cause. The relay box is mounted on the firewall, which may be colder than the rest of the interior, and maybe prone to a bit of condensation in cold weather. Here is the thread that originally set me onto the possible condensation issue.
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/forum-printtopic-1-122907-0-0-asc-viewresult-1.html
Also, here is a list I compiled of all the relays with the MB and Hella part numbers. (Hella appears to be the OEM for most or all of the relays). Several of the relays are interchangeable. This list is what I found in my 2011. It appears to match the list for 2007 that was posted elsewhere on this forum, although some relays have been superseded with new numbers. But be sure to check the numbers on your actual relays; don't rely on me, just some guy on the internet, to get this right. If you order online, you may need to try either the MB or the Hella numbers to find the right relays. The "terminal" numbers refer to the European standard designations for the accessory, ignition, and start circuits.
Relays by position #.
1 horn
2 Wiper speed 1 or 2
3 Fuel pump (appears to change location in 2015)
4 Wiper on/off
5 Terminal 50 starter solenoid
6 Terminal 15R "radio" (accessory)
7 Engine control
8 Terminal 15 ignition
Replacements
1,3 MB 0045452905 (0035420219 orig, superseded), Hella 4RD965 453-04
2,4,5 MB 0025427419 (0025421419 orig, superseded) Hella 4RD 007 794-21
Originals were 20A, new are 30A
6,7,8 MB 0025422619 Hella 4RA 007 793-031
I found it particularly interesting that the starter solenoid relay was one that was upgraded to 30A. This is probably related to the blown starter fuse issue that showed up in 2010-2012 models. If you have a 20 amp relay in this position in a 2010 or later van, might be prudent to upgrade it.
Last edited: