Update on turbo issue. Replaced actuator.

[HeadyTeddy]

*2005 2500 144" 118,000 miles*
I posted last week regarding a turbo issue. Here is a link to that post.

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42209&highlight=turbo+failure

After speaking to the Dodge mechanic who was working on my vehicle, I chose to replace the actuator, since I was told the turbocharger itself was in good condition.

I purchased a remanunfactured actuator on eBay for about $300. After ordering, I took my actuator out, which was quite easy.

When the new one arrived I installed it, which took a little while since I had to figure out the correct orientation of the arm that attaches to the turbo.

The first few times that I drove the van, it was driving like a champ. The check engine light even turned off. However, on my way home from the event I was working that day, the van went back into limp mode (no turbo). I restarted it then drove home, making sure not to bring the RPM's over 2,500.

Current Symptoms: Right now, when I drive the van, it drives well for about 10 minutes, after which I will lose my turbo boost when I accelerate beyond 3,000 RPM.


When I start the van, the actuator does appear to be operating properly.

I plugged in an OBDII and got the following codes: P0234 and P0243.

I am trying to figure out my next move. I am going to inspect the EGR, and the MAF. Any other ideas?

 

[autostaretx]

P0234 Turbo Boost Limit Exceeded
P0243 Open or shorted condition detected in the turbocharger Wastegate solenoid Ctrl
(and we don't have wastegates)

This is again where a "live data" OBD unit like a DashDaq, ScanGuage or the like would be very handy...
does the system go into "overboost" (more than 34 psi absolute)?
Is it really 3000 rpm, or is it load (thus requiring boost) that's triggering the drop-out?

--dick

 

[+drive]

It has been suggested that low voltage may cause this problem. I'd check the battery wires for corrosion, alternator output and battery condition. At least they are easy to evaluate.

 

[Fixitman]

I'm just guessing. I looked at the code meanings here:

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5369

I happened on a couple of turbo videos. They're not Sprinter turbos but maybe it helps?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsyuOFXKCeE

is related to code P0234 on another car, and this other video just seems pretty informative since you just replaced your actuator

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppif4qC560U

Of course, Sprinter turbos aren't vacuum operated (are they?), but still...
Someone else here should be able to give you better leads than me. But maybe these are fun to look at in the meantime.

 

[sailquik]

HeadyTeddy,
Why is it necessary to accelerate so rapidly that the RPM exceeds 3,000 RPM.
If you go lightly on the throttle, your OM-647 should upshift well before 3,000 RPM,
particularly if you lift off the throttle slightly @ ~ 2600-2700 RPM.
You also have the option to manually upshift your transmission, keeping the revs < 3,000.
But, have you gone over the entire turbo plumbing and palpated all the hoses.....checked all the
hose clamps, tested your turbocharger resonator, checked that your CAC is holding the pressure.
I agree with the others, a Scan Gauge II (or an OBD-II diagnostic device borrowed from your local
auto parts store, would tell you very quickly if your boost is going too high or not high enough.
It won't tell you why (i.e. no Sprinter specific codes), but the amount of boost/MAP pressure just before it
"pops" and goes into LHM would definitely tell you if it's too much or not enough MAP/boost pressure.
Hope this helps,
Roger

 

[HeadyTeddy]

Roger -
The reason why I have been accelerating beyond 3,000 rpms is to try and diagnose exactly what conditions lead my van to go into LHM. Also, it may be important for me to note that the van is fully loaded with gear and merchandise for my business, and I live in the mountains of upstate NY. No matter which way I turn from my driveway, there is a steep grade that the van has to climb. However, as I mentioned earlier, even if I accelerate rapidly, the van will not go into LHM until after 10 - 15 minutes of driving. Then it only occurs if I get the RPM's up.

Today I will remove and reinstall the new actuator so that I can be sure that the turbo veins have full range of motion. I will also clean all the connections on the various plugs and sensors within the turbo system. Next I suppose I'll inspect the EGR and then the MAF. I will continue to post my progress.

Thanks for all the great info so far!

 

[autostaretx]

the van will not go into LHM until after 10 - 15 minutes of driving. Then it only occurs if I get the RPM's up.

So accumulated heat may be a factor.

Question: if you drive long enough to get "into the range" that it's willing to hiccup,
what happens if you then stop, kill the engine, wait one minute, fire it up again.

Will it be able to fail immediately, or does it take another ten minutes before the symptoms return?

If it can fail immediately, then something (mechanical linkage, parts shifting due to heat expansion) is being stressed by the heat (which makes it FAR harder to diagnose/find).

--dick
p.s. (at least winter's coming... perhaps you'll get an hour by January?)

 

[HeadyTeddy]

I just got back from a short drive. I drove it about 8 minutes with no problems, then turned it off while I dropped off my recycling. On my way home, I rapidly accelerated, again trying to see what conditions trigger the loss of turbo/LHM. The van appeared to be shifting at a higher RPM then usual. The transmission shifted from 4th to 5th gear at about 4,500 rpm. About 5 seconds later I lost power. I will be updating periodically today.

 

[surlyoldbill]

Just a thought, maybe it's transmission related? Low or high tranny fluid? Tranny fluid seeping into the controller below the driver's seat because of bad seals? etc

 

[AdrianD]

P0234 Turbo Boost Limit Exceeded
P0243 Open or shorted condition detected in the turbocharger Wastegate solenoid Ctrl
(and we don't have wastegates)

This is again where a "live data" OBD unit like a DashDaq, ScanGuage or the like would be very handy...
does the system go into "overboost" (more than 34 psi absolute)?
Is it really 3000 rpm, or is it load (thus requiring boost) that's triggering the drop-out?

--dick

OP, if you already have the OBD2 adapter and if it is on bluetooth, you can download Torque, or even Torque Pro (very cheap) and diagnose as mentioned above. You can check boost versus rpm, you can even log it and report back.

 

[MercedesGenIn]

Hi there,
I am making an assumption here, and that is the turbo actuator is of the vacuum control type.

When you changed the turbo actuator did you set the micrometer adjustment of stroke to be exactly the same as the original? Any change in the length of this rod will cause not only the point at which boost starts within the load/rev range to shift, but also it can cause an under or overboost condition if not adjusted correctly.

This adjustment is usually 'factory set' and it is likely the replacement actuator has slightly different operating parameters to the one removed, although it would have at least be set as the original length for a base line starting point. To reset this positional length accurately to its optimum position you would need to do this on a DYNO, monitoring rpm and boost pressure real-time. In reality without this facility you have a trial and error situation on your hands.

You may want to read these for related information:

http://www.mercedes.gen.in/WP35/mercedes-sprinter-turbo-limp-home-los-diagnosis-fault-finding/
http://www.mercedes.gen.in/WP35/diesel-mercedes-sprinter-turbo-rebuild/

and importantly these two:

http://www.mercedes.gen.in/WP35/new-turbo-still-boost-mercedes-sprinter/
http://www.mercedes.gen.in/WP35/low-boost-limp-home-on-full-throttle/

If you have the electronic servo actuator then please disregard this post as it is self calibrating (end to end) on engine start.

Good luck with your fault finding,
All the best
Steve

 

[HeadyTeddy]

I just spent an hour under the hood doing the following:

-Removed new actuator
-Saturated bell crank with liquid wrench
-Moved bell crank back and forth
-Sprayed all electrical connections in intake system with contact cleaner
-Reinstalled actuator
-Reconnected cleaned plugs

After doing all of this, I took the van on the exact same drive that I went on this morning. Shifting appeared to be more regular. Vehicle did not lose power, even upon rapid acceleration with warmed engine.

My semi-educated guess is that the bell crank on the turbo was not operating within its full range of motion after problems began occurring with the original actuator. This may have been causing the turbo to produce too much boost, which could have led to the codes that I got yesterday. Hopefully the problem is taken care of! I will update when I next drive the van!

 

[MercedesGenIn]

Sorry about the inaccurate info above, as up to this point I could not determine the actuator type but it is obviously now an electrical actuator not a vac controlled!
However it is not uncommon for the turbos moving parts to get coked up inside and start to stick, restricting free movement. This often returns over time even if you manage to externally free them off, unless you strip and clean the internals. If you decide to venture inside at some point in the future the second link above will give you an idea of what to expect inside.

All the best
Steve

 

[Fixitman]

Good news HeddyTeddy! I hope it stays solved.

 

[HeadyTeddy]

Update: To anyone who is wondering, the van has been running very well. I drove it for about 2 hours the other night with no problems whatsoever. I am getting used to the sound of my resonator eliminator (this is the first time that the turbo system has been operating properly in a month). Tonight I drove for about 40 minutes. Towards the end of my drive I noticed that my CEL was off! I am feeling confident that I have taken care of the issue!

As always, thanks to everyone who offered advice! I hope that what I have posted can be helpful to anyone who is experiencing similar symptoms!

 

[671]

A big Thank You to you, HeadyTeddy for this post on the P0234 code. My 2008 NCV3 had the same symptoms as your T1N

After reading your post, I was able to clean and lubricate the turbo actuator linkage without removing the actuator from the vehicle by the following procedure:
1. remove three bolts from the heat shield and push it out of the way
2. spray the linkage joints with Liquid Wrench Gunk, and work a toothbrush all around the joints
3. rinse and repeat.

This cleared the P0234 code and restored normal turbo operation.

And thanks to all the amazing people on this forum who take time to share their experience and knowledge.