Using 80/20

[Graphite Dave]

1. I actually used "T-Slots" because I had a local vendor where I could pick up without freight charges. Had him cut 20' lengths into 8' and 12' so they fit in van. There are several more sources of identical extrusions. I can post the names when I get home next week. I cut all my extrusions to length with a chop saw with a aluminum cutting blade. I wanted to stick with extrusions that used 5/16-18NC fasteners. My tape measures all read in inches not metric. Bought all fasteners from local industrial bolt supplier. Bought aluminum flats and angles and msde my own connectors. Some not available from commercial source (thickness and hole locations different). See if any of the manufacturers have a stocking distributor in your area.

2, I use GeneralCadd. Also have Autocad but prefer GC. I would not order precut lengths.

3. Used Great Stuff spray insulation inside ribs. Hate the stuff but did not know an alternate.

 

[GeorgeRa]

Hi Dave, just wanted to say thanks for all your detailed help in the forums. I've been browsing a lot of the threads gathering information for starting my build on a 2013 170" Sprinter.

A few questions:

1. Have you done any research at the Misumi extrusion -vs- the 80/20? The 40mm is the closest comparatively I think and seems quite a bit cheaper.

2. What did you use to measure out your interior and design prior to build? I have sketchup but I'm not 100% confident in my calcs so I was thinking of cutting the alum myself instead of buying precut.

3. Did you insulate your cross beams/ribs in the ceiling? They seem to generate a ton of heat and I'm not sure how much insulation is possible inside or on the top of the beams.

Thanks again for your activity in the SS community.

I was not aware of Misumi, studied a little Bosch-Rexroth, similar to 80/20 but more expensive. Looking at Misumi it seems too complex for my application, the number of profiles is just overwhelming but rather low on assembly brackets side. I consider an alignment tool to drill access holes an absolute must but could not find one on the, practically not searchable, Misumi site. http://us.misumi-ec.com/maker/misumi/mech/aluminum_extrusions/Extrusion-Browser.html. I am very satisfy with the 80/20 line and the local distributor.

I agree with Dave, keeping one size bolt, 5/16"-18 (close to 8mm) for assembly is easier.

George.

 

[TimT]

I use t slot all the time at work and in my home shop. 80/20 has an e-bay store and they will combine shipping charges. There is also tnutz.com which offers cheap t slot small parts. I've also found the Diablo 96 tooth 12" saw from Home Depot/Lowes to be an excellent choice in cutting the extrusion.

Tim

 

[Neil2]

"I finally worked out a solution using angle connectors that compensated for the out of square surfaces."

I have a sloping, fiberglass Mega roof and am trying to adjust for it to mount 80/20 rails atop for my solar rack. Can you send me a pic or part number for the "angle connectors" referenced here? Please/thanks!

 

[GeorgeRa]

I am looking for plastic plugs, preferably in grey, for the 9/32" diameter access holes. Search for fasteners, christmas trees fasteners, or hole plugs was not successful. I considered using gray plastic rods chopped to plugs but could not find 9/32" or 7.15 mm diameter ones. 80/20 factory plugs for extrusion end holes for 10 and 15 series don't work.

Thank you,

George.

 

[pfflyer]

I looked at few series here http://www.caplugs.com/category.aspx?id=10000043 but didn't find any small enough. Don't know if any of these are your style but there are several pages and styles that I didn't look at. Good luck

 

[Graphite Dave]

George:
Try allianceplastis.com Part # PLH003A They are for 5/16" but maybe you can increase hole diameter to fit plugs. They are black.
Or FR006A which are 9/32 but still black.

Another source is product-components.com part # B15029 or B13026 Color?

 

[GeorgeRa]

Found the plug with about a perfect fit, not a right color. White are available from manufacturer.
Multiple colors available at 20K volumes. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BQ0250/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
http://www.heyco.com/Hole_Plugs/product.cfm?product=Custom-Color-Plugs&section=Hole_Plugs

I could purchase white ones 1661 and use grey nylon dye to have good color match with my interior.

George.

 

[GeorgeRa]

While looking for fasteners for my folding table I run into this end-fastener - http://www.minitecframing.com/Produ...ener_Catalog_Pages/21.0818_Power-Lock_SF.html

I assume it would fit 15 series.

George.

 

[Cole]

I've been following this and other 80/20 builds since I'm also building with 80/20 and want to see what others are doing. Lots of good ideas on all these threads.

So I'll just toss this out there as an option and to share ideas.


On mine, I put the 80/20 rails on where the cargo rails would normally go. This allowed for putting the bolts on from the rear. Leaving all of the rail clear on the front side. I had to put the special 80/20 nuts on the bolts and slide the rails onto the wall, then tighten them down from behind.

Notice the second rail below. This made a matching set of slots so slide interior panels into.

Here is a shot with the walls nearly done. You can see that each panel just slides into the slot of the upper/lower rails. Insulation is just sitting behind them.

The upper panels are split at the window frames. So if you want to add windows later it's about 5 min of work to slide a panel out and add a window. None of the other panels or pieces need to change.

 

[Cole]

I've seen a couple of comments that without thermally isolating the 80/20 from the van that it would effectively make the insulation worthless.

So I've been playing with a laser thermometer and here is basically what I have found so far. Will take some cold weather reading this weekend when camping above 10,000'



Outside of van in the sun.

Exact same spot inside the van on the 80/20 cargo rail.

 

[DieselFumes]

Hooray. Science rather than speculation.

Cole, if you really want to go all-out science-y, here are some other readings you might want to take:
1) Outside of van, in sun, at point where there is an internal reinforcement rib (something the 80/20 is bolted to on inside)
2) Outside of van, in sun, at point where there is no internal reinforcement rib
3) Inside van, on cargo rail, at point where it is bolted to internal reinforcement rib
4) Inside van, on 80/20 that is sitting unattached on insulated surface (seat?) so it has no thermal connection
5) Inside van, wall panel (the carpeted stuff between the 80/20) at point where there is no metal behind it
6) Inside van, wall panel, at point where there is an internal reinforcement rib

Repeat for cold temps too, preferably in the exact same locations.
Hell, if you really want to go all-out, repeat in two locations on the structure and average the readings.

What that gives us is
2-5 = best temperature differential (full insulation, no conductive path)
1-3 = temperature differential with full conductive path metal-to-metal
1-6 = temperature differential with comparative conductive path through van, stopped by interior wall alone
1-4 = temperature difference between vehicle skin and internal metal parts that don't have thermal connection
3-5 = how hot/cold the "thermally bridged" metal is in comparison with other interior surfaces

I think this last one might be why people get so vocal about this issue. Human physiology is such that we aren't very good at making objective measures of temperature just by touching things. Instead, we tend to make comparisons ("hotter" or "colder"). I guess there's no point being all science-y if you touch the metal and feel like you're going to freeze to it or get burned by it, regardless of what the actual temp differential is.

 

[Cole]

Hooray. Science rather than speculation.

Cole, if you really want to go all-out science-y, here are some other readings you might want to take:
1) Outside of van, in sun, at point where there is an internal reinforcement rib (something the 80/20 is bolted to on inside)
2) Outside of van, in sun, at point where there is no internal reinforcement rib

I took several readings all over the outside. Same temp everywhere, rib or not.

3) Inside van, on cargo rail, at point where it is bolted to internal reinforcement rib

That is what that above reading is. 80/20 bolted directly to the metal with no isolation. Wall however is insulated.

4) Inside van, on 80/20 that is sitting unattached on insulated surface (seat?) so it has no thermal connection

5) Inside van, wall panel (the carpeted stuff between the 80/20) at point where there is no metal behind it
6) Inside van, wall panel, at point where there is an internal reinforcement rib

Also took all of those. All were the same 75* as the picture above so I figured there was no point of posting a bunch of duplicate pictures. I also took the floor temp which. Was also 75*.


The only point that is different is a section of the roof where there is no insulation. I'll post the pics in a moment here.


Here is the ceiling of my van where I still have to insulate. This is the ONLY spot in my van were the 80/20 ever seems to get hotter than anything.

On the 80/20 3" away.

What all of this seems to say is that the insulation is doing its job and the 80/20 isn't magically just by passing it all. Also that it is significantly cooler than the outside sheet metal.

 

[sailquik]

Cole,
That's one very cool little laser thermometer.
Who makes it and where can I purchase one?
What's the measuring distance max?
What's the hi temp range?
Couldn't this be used to measure trans fluid/pan temperature vs engine coolant temperature vs engine oil pan temperature?
TIA!
Roger

 

[pfflyer]

Cole,
That's one very cool little laser thermometer.
Who makes it and where can I purchase one?
What's the measuring distance max?
What's the hi temp range?
Couldn't this be used to measure trans fluid/pan temperature vs engine coolant temperature vs engine oil pan temperature?
TIA!
Roger

Roger,
There are a lot of places to buy them now. Search Amazon for infrared thermometers. All price ranges.
Funny story. When they first came out 3M made one that was over $500. A food service warehouse bought one from me to find rats in the walls. For that application it didn't work as good as they thought. There are several other industrial and automotive applications as well as handy to have around the house. It can be used like you said as well as wheel bearing temps and probably some others.

 

[Cole]

Cole,
That's one very cool little laser thermometer.
Who makes it and where can I purchase one?
What's the measuring distance max?
What's the hi temp range?
Couldn't this be used to measure trans fluid/pan temperature vs engine coolant temperature vs engine oil pan temperature?
TIA!
Roger

Roger,
There are a lot of places to buy them now. Search Amazon for infrared thermometers. All price ranges.
Funny story. When they first came out 3M made one that was over $500. A food service warehouse bought one from me to find rats in the walls. For that application it didn't work as good as they thought. There are several other industrial and automotive applications as well as handy to have around the house. It can be used like you said as well as wheel bearing temps and probably some others.

As cheap as $15 with free shipping on ebay these days

 

[Neil2]

I agree, sort of. I believe, given my insulation technique/materials, my thermal conduction from outside is similar to the issue of which you speak. I haven't connected aluminum to the frame yet but it is same for any Sprinter in which one doesn't build an interior, insulated shell, I believe. I wouldn't say thermal conduction makes the 'insulation worthless' but I do wonder if a buffer wall for isolating the outside temps would be worth the cost/time. My impression is that the inside temps changes in my rig are significantly reduced by my insulation. Now once the ambient temp inside matches that of outside it's an altogether different problem. The chassis is like an oven once it matches the temps outside. The most important remedy I've found is moving air. The second is cooling the air. The chassis will take all night to cool down in the summer if it gets hot enough during the day.

The one thing I would do differently is use the factory walls for storage nooks and utilities but build 80/20 panels to create plumb walls with insulation BETWEEN them and the factory walls. Having paneled walls would allow so many modifications right down to skeleton of the build.

 

[Cole]

I' but I do wonder if a buffer wall for isolating the outside temps would be worth the cost/time.

From my reading I would say the only spot it *might* help is the roof. But then again, that is the spot not currently insulated on my van. This was also the only spot "not room temp" like the rest of the extensive 80/20 inside my van. I'll test it again when I get the roof insulation done.

But, realistically....The readings are 40-55* variation over the vans sheet metal temp!! How much more do you think you will get?

 

[plcpitt]

Just a note on the temperature reading - my experience using these devices a number of years ago in industrial settings is that the readings are not accurate for shiny metal surfaces. You may want to check the user manual to confirm if the device is accurate in this instance. The 80/20 should dissipate some heat due to the large surface area if the inside of the vehicle is cooler.

Thanks for the great posts on your project!

 

[Cole]

Just a note on the temperature reading - my experience using these devices a number of years ago in industrial settings is that the readings are not accurate for shiny metal surfaces. You may want to check the user manual to confirm if the device is accurate in this instance. The 80/20 should dissipate some heat due to the large surface area if the inside of the vehicle is cooler.

Thanks for the great posts on your project!

Thanks.

I did actually read the manual and it didn't list that as a specific problem, but good to note.

I've wanted one of these thermometers for a while now and this was a good excuse to buy one. The readings so far have matched up with the feeling of the material when touched. More of a way to validate what my fingers were already telling me.

I'm a bit more motivated to finish my roof insulation now after seeing 150* temps on the inside of the roof panel!! This was on a 75* day too! (Colorado has some intense sun)

I'll be curious to see what the cold camping turns up this weekend.


I should note that these readings were with the van just sitting in the sun, not running, no AC on.