In-Depth RV Lithium Install & Wiring Film - Mike Mas

IdleUp

Member
In-Depth RV Lithium Install & Wiring Film - Mike Mas

Hello Sprinter Owners,

With all the excitement and activity regarding the integration of Lithium Batteries to RV’s, Linda and I decided document our own independent installation and share it with other RV owners who might be considering a lithium upgrade to their coach.

While there are many different levels of installations, our film shows a total conversion from flooded batteries, to a state of the art advanced lithium system. The film includes an overview of 12 & 110 volt wiring. It also covers our five different charging sources and most important, having the right RV appliances with a lithium coach. This film is applicable to type; B, B+, C, or A motorhomes.

A few of the key components are a pair of Lithionics Battery 400ah lithium packs (800AH) providing over 10 kilowatts of lithium power. The packs are regulated by a Lithionics advanced Bluetooth BMS module. The secondary component is Xantrex’s Freedom 3012, 3 kw inverter, with its 150 amp lithium protocol charger, SCP panel and Combox wireless system, connected to our MoFi 4500G 4G cell router, allowing monitoring and making changes to the system from any location.

The system also includes a Mastervolt’s Charge Mate Pro for charging from the stock Transit alternator, and Victon’s solar controller and 400 watts of roof panels. The film also includes installation of a Ring 4G alarm system with cameras and a lithium heating system.

Enjoy - Mike Mas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyAAxNqKCOg&feature=youtu.be
 

Attachments

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
10 kilowatts of lithium power, that is impressive, congratulation. So you can run over 800A at 12VDC or over 80A at 120VAC, wow.
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
Those Lithionics systems are quite pricey. I honestly think their capabilities are overkill for a class B (and most Class As!).
 

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
I would have put a 4K diesel genset in that perfect location instead.... :thumbup:
You would need 3 x 4 kilowatt synched generators to match his 10 kilowatts of juicy power, unless he meant 10 kilowatt-hour of energy.
 

owner

Oz '03 316CDI LWB ex-Ambo Patient Transport
800Ah at 12V would be around 10kWh. The instantaneous power output would be enormous.
 

IdleUp

Member
Thanks for the reply's - when it gets to lithium you get what you pay for, look at the video where i compare two Type 31 batteries, there is a big difference and nobody has a BMS like Lithionics. With Lithionics you're also getting safety, they are the only company in the world to offer UL approved equipment, keep in mind we live in these coaches so safety is super important. I have 3 close friends who lost their homes to lithium batteries in drones.

Keep in mind, its not mandatory to have 800ah, for the video, I used only one 400ah pack and it works fine for most situations. A 400 ah system will be suitable for any coach especially type A's where most already have the needed 3000 watt inverter. In any case, lithium is an investment in your RV, if you're planning on a new coach, I would not spend the bucks for lithium, on the other hand, if you're keeping your coach, its one best investment you can make.

Regards - Mike
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
Not to be contrary, but LIPO batteries used in drones are not in the same league as LIFE/LFP safety wise. It's somewhat like comparing the flammability of diesel and gasoline.

Here is a video with a LFP battery puncture. This simulates the worst case, with venting electrolyte, sparks, lots of heat. Notice the lack of fire. Quite boring compared to LIPO or NMC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMARDvMz62A
 

IdleUp

Member
Thanks - I've been using lithium in military drones since the early 90's, so I'm up to speed on different types of lithium chemistry. In any case should any any lithium batteries BMS fail and allow over-charging, it will more than likely result in a fire. Unlike a car, RV's are mostly manufactured of plastic composites and wood, therefore extremely flammable. This is why some manufactures like Lithionics seal the cells in a metal case to prevent a fire. This is why UL approval on batteries is so important, it provides the owner a higher level of safety.

Regards - Mike
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
... it will more than likely result in a fire. ..
I don't question your knowledge, obviously you have skills.

I have seen several overcharging tests for LFP prismatics, both intentional, and accidental. Only one resulted in a fire.

Anyways, just trying to dispel the myth that LFP is anywhere near LCO NMC, LiPo, etc flammability wise.
 

IdleUp

Member
No problem at all Drifter, I feel lithium safety has gone a long way since those early days. While many vendors brag how safe they are, there is still plenty of fire concerns with all types of lithium as is evident with the Airline restrictions to ship them. After using lithium in drones for so many years and seeing so many chargers and BMS failures, for me spending the extra money on a good BMS was cheap security considering most RV's cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Thanks Mike
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
Interestingly I work for the airline industry, so I have a little background on that decision. The FAA restrictions on lithium batteries were based on lithium cobalt battery fires early on. There were attempts to get the rules amended for other lithium chemistries, but the FAA was not interested in "splitting hairs" over the matter.

Obviously there is risk with any energy source over a certain density.

Its interesting the lithionics is UL certified. I would be curious to see what the UL test protocol was, and what cells they used for the testing. That certification has value though, as the UL doesn't rubber stamp stuff usually.
 

SSTraveler

2014 LTV Unity Murphy Bed
IdleUp, great job! I think Lithium would be well worth it and certainly a very good investment if you are able to do the installation yourself. You installed a very similar system to one I have been considering for the replacement of my generator in my 2014 Leisure Unity. With Gamma1966's help, we came up with a Lithonics 600ah battery (maximize the old generator box space and weighs nearly the same as the generator), Lithonics BMS, Victron Multiplus 3k Inverter/charger, Victron Smart Solar Controller 100v/30a, 300w Renogy Glass Solar panels, etc. By adding the Micro Air Easy Start to the Dometic Air Conditioner you can reduce the amps drawn on the 120vAC to run the AC for 1 hour per 160ah of lithium battery power, discharging to 20% SOC. So your 800ah system can get you up to 4 hours AC runtime without additional charging if need be. Very impressive!

Did you remove your generator? Or did you opt for no generator when you purchased?

Lithium batteries are so heavy it can only make sense to have a large bank if you can substitute it for another heavy component, I thought about going to 800AH by removing the propane tank and putting 200ah in its spot. If I could install a Truma Combi in my rig then I could completely remove any need for propane. I have upgraded to an induction cooktop and just installed a compressor Refrigerator so only my Suburban furnace still uses propane. If I were to get a new rig it might make more sense to make a large investment and system alteration to try and achieve greater than 800ah capacity than doing it on my 2014 model. You are smart doing this type of upgrade on your new rig so you can enjoy right from the beginning.

Several companies like Lithonics, Xantrex, Volta are offering comprehensive Lithium battery kits to replace generators or upgrade the house batteries.

Thank you for sharing your install, it is very helpful to others who are interested in going all electric!
 

calbiker

Well-known member
I liked that you kept the propane stove top and fridge. Propane is extremely efficient for those applications. No need to go electric crazy.

Why did you choose Charge Mate pro for alternator charging? As far as I can tell it's not DC/DC. Just voltage pass-through.

I believe your system has a central charging disconnect and a central load disconnect. What are the contact ratings? Those guys can't be cheap! Military grade!

I'm trying to assemble a system, but taking a different approach. I intend to disable high-current components individually like inverter, converter, and B2B by giving them a shutdown signal. Now solar and the rest of the small current loads can be disabled with 40A relays.
 

wankel7

Active member
I liked that you kept the propane stove top and fridge. Propane is extremely efficient for those applications. No need to go electric crazy.

Why did you choose Charge Mate pro for alternator charging? As far as I can tell it's not DC/DC. Just voltage pass-through.

I believe your system has a central charging disconnect and a central load disconnect. What are the contact ratings? Those guys can't be cheap! Military grade!

I'm trying to assemble a system, but taking a different approach. I intend to disable high-current components individually like inverter, converter, and B2B by giving them a shutdown signal. Now solar and the rest of the small current loads can be disabled with 40A relays.
The system in this video has 10kw of storage using some of the most expensive per watt batteries out there.

Cooking on induction and keeping your beer cold with a compressor fridge isn't exactly crazy. Heck I do it with a system a fraction of the size and cost of this.
 

ECU

2006 T1n 118 Sprinter
I've been considering replacing my Aux battery that now powers a 1500W inverter and runs the Espar and other things in the van.
Would I have to maintain isolation from the van electrical system? Or could I still use the relay that connects everything when the engine is running?
I am considering about 120-150aH LiFePo4 batteries with BMS.
 

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
The system in this video has 10kw of storage using some of the most expensive per watt batteries out there.

Cooking on induction and keeping your beer cold with a compressor fridge isn't exactly crazy. Heck I do it with a system a fraction of the size and cost of this.
You don't need 10kW to run an RV fridge, I run my Isotherm 85l fridge at about 30-50W.
 

wankel7

Active member
I liked that you kept the propane stove top and fridge. Propane is extremely efficient for those applications. No need to go electric crazy.

Why did you choose Charge Mate pro for alternator charging? As far as I can tell it's not DC/DC. Just voltage pass-through.

I believe your system has a central charging disconnect and a central load disconnect. What are the contact ratings? Those guys can't be cheap! Military grade!

I'm trying to assemble a system, but taking a different approach. I intend to disable high-current components individually like inverter, converter, and B2B by giving them a shutdown signal. Now solar and the rest of the small current loads can be disabled with 40A relays.
You don't need 10kW to run an RV fridge, I run my Isotherm 85l fridge at about 30-50W.
I know. I have a Freeline 115.
 

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