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Old 08-29-2017, 06:30 PM   #1
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Default Upside down pictures

Why is it that every time I upload a picture, it posts upside down?

And even when I edit a picture to create an upside down version and upload that, it STILL shows upside down in the post?

I am not the only one this happens to. Is there a setting that I've overlooked?
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Old 08-29-2017, 07:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: Upside down pictures

Details? (camera, operating system of posting/editing platform, editing app)

A concrete example? (post a photo so we can snoop the metadata...)

--dick
(if your camera/phone is set to apply its gravity sensor to the image data, try changing that setting)
((i use clunky old (soon deprecated) MS Paint for my forum photo editing/cropping/rotating.
The rotations i apply appear correctly in the final posting))
(((... then again, it may simply be that your camera/phone creates the JPEG file from the bottom up...
instead of from the top down. That would mean that the first raster line the forum has to work with (and which it places at the top) will be the one from the bottom of your image. Ouch.)))

((NOTE:if you're using Windows Picture/Photo viewer ... and you rotate an image, it removes the original orientation info... that can make subsequent programs very confused about which way is up.))
Quoth: The damage is done as soon as you press one of the rotate buttons . The disk icon is just for copying the file and should not be thought of as a Save button!
source: http://www.impulseadventure.com/phot...ientation.html
The 2nd (Mike Wilson's) "comment" after that article's text goes in to more detail...

(i use Picasa's Photo viewer for "simply looking at it", and Paint for the actual work)
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Last edited by autostaretx; 08-29-2017 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 08-30-2017, 05:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: Upside down pictures

Here's my latest thread, with wonky pictures:

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=59025

Now that you mention it, probably all of my cases of wonky pictures came from my iPhone 6, which does automatically "right" the screen when you aim it. I'll look to see if I can "lock" the camera.
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Old 08-30-2017, 05:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: Upside down pictures

Or open, rotate, then save the pictures with a computer then post to the forum. This over writes the metadata.

Keith.
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Old 08-30-2017, 05:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: Upside down pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Why is it that every time I upload a picture, it posts upside down?
Probably has something to do with your camera and the way it includes rotation info in with the photo.

Quote:
And even when I edit a picture to create an upside down version and upload that, it STILL shows upside down in the post?
The edited photo is now correctly adding (or more likely, not including any) rotation info. So you need to save the edited photos right side up.

Quote:
I am not the only one this happens to. Is there a setting that I've overlooked?
Not that I know of.


PS - Since you're using an iPhone, try holding it on it's other side when taking photos. I think it prefers to have the home button on the right when in landscape mode.
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Last edited by ptheland; 08-30-2017 at 05:55 PM. Reason: added PS
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Old 08-30-2017, 06:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Upside down pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Here's my latest thread, with wonky pictures:

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=59025

Now that you mention it, probably all of my cases of wonky pictures came from my iPhone 6, which does automatically "right" the screen when you aim it. I'll look to see if I can "lock" the camera.
So i copied your 2nd image from that page to my Windows PC...

And ya know? Both the File explorer thumbnail *and* the Picasa-rendered full view *are right-side up*!!?? ()
Windows' "properties" display doesn't speak of it having an Orientation flag.

Here's the photo just re-uploaded to this post, with no editing attempted at all:

00upside.JPG

Here it is after passing through Paint, but with no editing (only saving as a different name):

01upside.jpg

And here's that last one, shrunk and rotated left 90 degrees (so the LED should appear to face "down"):

02upside.jpg

Let's see how they look... (result: 1st was still inverted, 2nd and 3rd appeared correctly)

--dick
p.s. then, to test the "windows photo viewer" theory, i just looked at it with MS Photo Viewer (no "save" attempted), where it appeared correctly (i.e. as desired) oriented. Then i asked MS Photo Viewer to "save a copy" ... both appeared in (a short-lived) rendition of this posting as the original inverted (i.e. undesired) image.
I'll find a better metadata editor to see what's in there
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Last edited by autostaretx; 08-30-2017 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 08-30-2017, 06:25 PM   #7
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Default Re: Upside down pictures

OK... there IS an Orientation flag associated with that image.

I used an online metadata viewer: http://metapicz.com/

I dragged-and-dropped my local copy of the image to it and the EXIF data included:
Make: Apple
Model: iPhone 6
Orientation: Rotate 180
XResolution: 72
------------

The copy saved out from Paint said:
Make: Apple
Model: iPhone 6
Orientation: Horizontal (normal)
XResolution: 72
------------------

So that's where the flip is coming from: the forum is honoring the Orientation flag (whereas Windows is ignoring (and replacing) it)
... it's possible that you already tried to rotate the image, and that may be where the Orientation flag came from?

--dick
p.s. my "rotate left" image was also flagged as "horizontal" ... paint had shuffled pixels, not just tweaked the header
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2005 T1N 118" Freightliner 2500 Passenger Wagon (2.7L, 15" tires, standard (short) roof)
Get YOUR Sprinter's full configuration datacard by entering your VIN to https://www.datamb.com/
http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference <-- lots of service documentation, Thanks to Jens Moller and Arnie_Oli
((as always: this post may go through a couple of post-posting edits... so maybe give it ten minutes before commenting))

Last edited by autostaretx; 08-30-2017 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 08-30-2017, 06:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: Upside down pictures

Awesome, Dick.
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:29 AM   #9
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Default Re: Upside down pictures

... but i wasn't finished...

The original file isn't really a "JPEG" (in a sense)... it's an "EXIF"
(since both use features of the other, it's somewhat of a chicken/egg syndrome).
((but JPEG shot first... 1992 versus EXIF in 1995))

The EXIF header can be a part of a JPEG (or JFIF) file ... and an EXIF file can use JPEG/jfif compression of the image.

Here are hex dumps of three of the variations i ended up with... the one on the bottom of the screen is the original, and i've highlighted the "orientation" flag byte (3=rotate 180, although the actual specification states it by a far more confusing (but accurate) description).

The hex dump in the middle shows what happened when i used Windows' File Explorer to perform the rotation... it simply changed the one byte to "01" ... that's the only change to the entire file (if you right-click on a JPG file in Windows, it offers "Rotate Right" (and Left) in the menu. I clicked twice for 180 degrees). The resulting image/thumbnail is indeed upside down (like Riptide's posting) on my screen.

The hex dump at the top is what happened when i gave it to Paint and told it to save as a JPEG ... it went through with a bulldozer and created an entirely new "first header", with the EXIF data (out of sight) shuffled further into the file after the JFIF header info.

00fileData.png

... So Windows does look at the Orientation byte, since it's willing to play with it in the middle example.

Hunting down "jpeg orientation" and "exif orientation" finds all sorts of rants about how creatively the various programs and operating systems (Windows, MacOS and Linux apps) manage to mangle the results.
Examples: EXIF Orientation Handling Is a Ghetto
Best example of what should happen: http://www.impulseadventure.com/phot...ientation.html

...time to stop digging...
--dick
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Get YOUR Sprinter's full configuration datacard by entering your VIN to https://www.datamb.com/
http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference <-- lots of service documentation, Thanks to Jens Moller and Arnie_Oli
((as always: this post may go through a couple of post-posting edits... so maybe give it ten minutes before commenting))

Last edited by autostaretx; 08-31-2017 at 03:32 AM.
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