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Old 11-26-2014, 06:54 PM   #41
GeorgeRa
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Default Re: Espar Underseat Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by meyerx View Post
So for those that may need to add an altitude sensor...
It turns out that there is no simple plug and play option for adding it if you have the Digi-max controller
that is shipped with the Bunkhouse heaters.
In order to integrate it, 3 wires need to tapped somewhere of your choice into the the line between the controller and the heater.
In addition, only the controller OR the pressure sensor can be communicating with the heater ECU at a time.
Thus a 4th wire(blue/white) needs to be delt with. I just learned a new greek word "single pole double throw" toggle
switch needs to be added to the blue/white wire. So the ECU either adjusts for altitude over blue white or sends fault
codes to the digimax controller, but not both simultaneously.
About to dive in....will try to get a few pics along the way for those interested
Thank you for the update. I am surprised that the DigiMax and the Altitude Compensator will not work together. I thought that the compensator adjusts pulse frequency and drives the fuel pump but the D2 is still controlled by DigiMax. Could you post some Esparís info about it.

With the low cost of pressure sensors it is rather shocking that a compensation functionality is not built in, for customer this could be a difference of $2 per unit versus $300 for the Compensator and the installation headache. Most likely a carryover technology from the 20th Century.

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Old 11-27-2014, 02:56 AM   #42
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Default Re: Espar Underseat Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camping View Post
Why not just add high altitude pump? Easy to swap out with the original.
http://www.esparparts.com/fuel-meter...h-p-25174.html
Seems like this is also how Espar/Webasto suggest as an alternative. You wire the pump in parallel with the stock one, and use a switch to turn on the one that you need.

Others also mention that running the high alt pump at low alt is leaner, but does not cause a problem. Lean will be hotter, but the unit temp is monitored and will shut down if too hot, as needed.
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Old 11-27-2014, 03:09 AM   #43
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Default Re: Espar Underseat Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by meyerx View Post
So for those that may need to add an altitude sensor...
It turns out that there is no simple plug and play option for adding it if you have the Digi-max controller
that is shipped with the Bunkhouse heaters.
In order to integrate it, 3 wires need to tapped somewhere of your choice into the the line between the controller and the heater.
In addition, only the controller OR the pressure sensor can be communicating with the heater ECU at a time.
Thus a 4th wire(blue/white) needs to be delt with. I just learned a new greek word "single pole double throw" toggle
switch needs to be added to the blue/white wire. So the ECU either adjusts for altitude over blue white or sends fault
codes to the digimax controller, but not both simultaneously.
About to dive in....will try to get a few pics along the way for those interested
I am aware of the above-described conflict. However, my new GWV Legend came both with a Digimax and the high-altitude unit. I can't yet give first hand testimony that they both work together, and I have not examined the wiring, but there is no switch involved. Is it possible that the issue has been resolved? I hope so.
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Old 11-29-2014, 02:41 AM   #44
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Default Re: Espar Underseat Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camping View Post
Why not just add high altitude pump? Easy to swap out with the original.
http://www.esparparts.com/fuel-meter...h-p-25174.html
The description for this part:
This high altitude 12 volt fuel metering pump is used for D2 and D4heater applications when operation of the heater is consistently at 4000+ feet above sea level.

I'm guessing this option is for those living at altitude, not just visiting at times.
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Old 12-02-2014, 06:36 AM   #45
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Default Re: Espar Underseat Installation

Ran through the high altitude sensor install just in time for a trip over thxgiving. Everything worked great and the D2
made it feel like cheating over the cold nights and mornings. It should run well now at all altitudes. We were between 5000-6000ft this time.
Here are a few notes from the install:
-the wiring from the D2 to the Digimax controller went from under the passenger seat thru the inter-seat tunnel to the driver seat, then out and under the plastic covering the driver seatbelt tower and into the paneling under the rear window. The controller is drilled into the metal framing above the paneling but below the window close to our bed. I wanted to place the sensor in a protected area between the parking brake and the driver seat pedestal. Thus i tapped the controller wiring as it passed under the driver seat. Slice the outer wire casing and tap the red, yellow and brown/white wires. Cut the blue/white wire all the way through

After tapping the 3 wires to the wiring harness supplied with the high altitude kit, add a single pole double throw toggle switch to the 3 blue/white wires

-flip the switch so the the ecu is talking to the sensor over blue/white...and not the digimax over blue/white. The wiring to the sensor hiding behind the parking brake just exits the driver pedestal via the same hole as the parking brake wiring.

Quick view of my heater placement (should be room for spare battery too)

Heat vent placement

Another view (and if you look closely...just left of parking brake is the sensor)


Good luck
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:45 PM   #46
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Default Re: Espar Underseat Installation

I am confused and somewhat concerned about the wiring of my high altitude option. As I said, it definitely does NOT have a switch, and Great West says that it will be fine. Is it going to fail next time I stealth camp in the gift shop parking lot at Pikes Peak? (just kidding) Is there any way I can tell?

Meyerx: Are you sure you needed the switch, or are you simply following conventional advice from this list? It does seem like the kind of problem which the manufacturer would tend to sort out eventually. FWIW, attached is the relevant diagram from the Espar installation manual:

Espar wiring.jpg
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Old 12-02-2014, 04:56 PM   #47
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Default Re: Espar Underseat Installation

I am not sure what the switch is for, it is not in the instruction manual. I assume that the altitude compensator works in low and in high altitudes by adjusting the fuel flow above the threshold altitude and leaving the flow the same below this threshold, as temperature calls for.

The diagram shows intercepted pump circuit only.

Meyerx: It would be nice to see which diagram was used in your installation. edit: It seems that you had some additional info which is not showing in the instruction. If you disconnect the Digi-Max, how do you control the temperature. I must say that this Espar diagram is lacking details.

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Last edited by GeorgeRa; 12-02-2014 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Added text
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Old 12-02-2014, 06:38 PM   #48
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Default Re: Espar Underseat Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti View Post
I am confused and somewhat concerned about the wiring of my high altitude option. As I said, it definitely does NOT have a switch, and Great West says that it will be fine. Is it going to fail next time I stealth camp in the gift shop parking lot at Pikes Peak? (just kidding) Is there any way I can tell?

Meyerx: Are you sure you needed the switch, or are you simply following conventional advice from this list? It does seem like the kind of problem which the manufacturer would tend to sort out eventually. FWIW, attached is the relevant diagram from the Espar installation manual:

Attachment 64296
The diagram shown in Avanti's post number 46 above comes from Jim Rixen's manual. If wired as shown in post 46 above, the Digi controller will interfere with the altimeter module. Several forum members have had this issue which results in the Espar D5 boilers becoming soot filled and not working properly. It is most apparent at altitudes approaching 9,500 feet. I found that my Espar worked fine without the altimeter at 5,000 feet.

Espar has suggested a fix as documented in the attached wiring diagram. The diagram was originally obtained by another member of this forum. I wired my D5 system as suggested, and have had no problems.

See From Ski_Bike_Camp's super helpful original post. http://sprinter-source.com/forum/sho...ltitude&page=2

The fix is simple. The switch enables the use of the altimeter OR the digi-controller. In Rixen's system design, the Espar digi controller is only used to fetch failure codes during service -- another stand-alone thermostat is used to control the house temperature. The fix switches the blue/white line from the Espar boiler to the Digi Controller for code retrival, versus the normal connection of the heater blue/white wire to the altimeter module violet wire.

Attached is the PDF file that Ski_Bike_Camp originally posted, together with a diagram that was obtained from Espar showing the fix. The Espar diagram is cryptic in that the violet wire from the altimeter module (labeled vI in the other PDF file) is connected to a harness plug which transitions to a blue/white wire.

Good luck.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:56 PM   #49
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Default Re: Espar Underseat Installation

I notice that many under seat installs seem to possibly starve the burner of return cold air. The answer is simple -- simply use the hole saw to make one or two holes in the front or side of the seat base.
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Old 12-02-2014, 08:39 PM   #50
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Default Re: Espar Underseat Installation

To get the story straight regarding the high altitude capability I called Espar. All newer 2012 and up Espar D2 with H-Kit printed on the label should use the High Altitude Sensor (not the Compensator, part of my confusion) for extended times in high elevations. http://www.esparofmichigan.com/techs...e%20sensor.pdf

The High Altitude Sensor is fully compatible with Digi-Max regarding temperature control, by adjusting pump pulse frequency it lowers fuel flow at higher altitude in the range from the sea level up.

The High Altitude Sensor is not compatible with Digi-Max regarding diagnostics. White blue wire needs a switch which normally disconnects it from DigiMax and connects it to The Altitude Sensor. If troubleshooting is required you flip the switch. I think Meyerx has mentioned that just did not sink with me.

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