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Old 10-04-2010, 01:52 PM   #1
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Default Anyone with a 4xx sprinter downrated to 3.5 ton?

Hi,

Is there anyone with a 4.6 ton sprinter that has been downrated to 3.5 ton?

I need to find out the thickness of the bump stop plates that go under the bump stops to make it a 3.5 ton

cheers,loz
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:56 PM   #2
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Default Re: Anyone with a 4xx sprinter downrated to 3.5 ton?

Do you mean the rear parabolic springs?
Richard
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:02 AM   #3
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Default Re: Anyone with a 4xx sprinter downrated to 3.5 ton?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altered Sprinter View Post
Do you mean the rear parabolic springs?
Richard
hi,

no there's a bump stop above the spring mounted to the body. Below the bump stop is the axle, and on the axle is a block of metal that is a certain thickness which makes the gross weight (on paper) 3.5tonne.In the UK to downrate it from 4.6 to 3.5 tonnes(for many legal reasons) this has to be done when it's a panel van or in this case minibus.
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:44 AM   #4
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Default Re: Anyone with a 4xx sprinter downrated to 3.5 ton?

Lots me completely, the Bump stop English V elsewhere is just a secondary impact shock absorber. Rubber spacers between springs are sound and impact absorbers.
Raised metal blocks betwwen the chassis is based on low and high variant models such as a raised camper or in the NAFTA models on Tins for allowance of 16" rims as opposed to the normal 15" rims
At the same time a 4x4 of which is raised as to center of gravity,as to ground clearance. same as a 5 metric tonne Cab over chassis variant refereed to as a 616 cdi.
If I look at what you have asked for ,you state 4.6 T this unit is a 5.1 MT unit, down rated to 4.6 MT [OR AS DESIGNATED ON YOUR SPECS A 4.45 TO 4.95 mt VARIANT] with dual rear wheels, with multiple parabolic springs under the SAA codes your main spring will read 903 3200 1850 three designated codes for springs;= X 004 070928 as an example
Your rear main parabolic spring on the eye shackle has a MB number stamped into the actual SPRING IT'S NOT REMOVABLE AS IS THE PRINTED NUMBERING SEQUENCES AS TO CODEX ON THE FACE OF YOUR MAIN PARABOLIC SPRING. it-represents the loadings as to your front axle it should read 1850 on a Tin cargo van or 1900 KG on a Cab-over chassis unit.
Again your question asks down-rating to 3500 ,unless its a Cargo van single wheel job this model 4.6 can not be configured by down weighting to a 3500 KG unit,unless you can get a certificate from the TUV that the van is used for non commercial use, and it's for private or passenger use only.
You can swap over rear springs to two as a 3.8 GVM /variants one raised the height,with softer ride Or the other is for a lower ride designed to be firmer and carry a higher weight.
ON the Tin ,there was on H/D parabolic single spring that up rated the GVM capacity to 3.8 GVM, and the Compliance plates still remained 3500KG.
Are you looking for a tax plate compliance get out of ticket! or attempting to bring a 4 /5 series van back to 3.4 GVM to get out of the stricter emission controls applied to a 3500.5KG and over van.
I don't think you can do it with out a rectification from an engineer ,if you succeed then a new plate is designated as to the GVM ,now days its a transport approved yellow sticker stating it's new certificated weight.
One member in the UK has a 4.2 GVM SuSi super single wide rear wheel unit van that has a re-certificated plate back to 3.8 or 3500KG variant.and this is a current model 2010 NCV.
Richard
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Old 10-05-2010, 08:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Anyone with a 4xx sprinter downrated to 3.5 ton?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altered Sprinter View Post
Lots me completely, the Bump stop English V elsewhere is just a secondary impact shock absorber. Rubber spacers between springs are sound and impact absorbers.
Raised metal blocks betwwen the chassis is based on low and high variant models such as a raised camper or in the NAFTA models on Tins for allowance of 16" rims as opposed to the normal 15" rims
At the same time a 4x4 of which is raised as to center of gravity,as to ground clearance. same as a 5 metric tonne Cab over chassis variant refereed to as a 616 cdi.
If I look at what you have asked for ,you state 4.6 T this unit is a 5.1 MT unit, down rated to 4.6 MT [OR AS DESIGNATED ON YOUR SPECS A 4.45 TO 4.95 mt VARIANT] with dual rear wheels, with multiple parabolic springs under the SAA codes your main spring will read 903 3200 1850 three designated codes for springs;= X 004 070928 as an example
Your rear main parabolic spring on the eye shackle has a MB number stamped into the actual SPRING IT'S NOT REMOVABLE AS IS THE PRINTED NUMBERING SEQUENCES AS TO CODEX ON THE FACE OF YOUR MAIN PARABOLIC SPRING. it-represents the loadings as to your front axle it should read 1850 on a Tin cargo van or 1900 KG on a Cab-over chassis unit.
Again your question asks down-rating to 3500 ,unless its a Cargo van single wheel job this model 4.6 can not be configured by down weighting to a 3500 KG unit,unless you can get a certificate from the TUV that the van is used for non commercial use, and it's for private or passenger use only.
You can swap over rear springs to two as a 3.8 GVM /variants one raised the height,with softer ride Or the other is for a lower ride designed to be firmer and carry a higher weight.
ON the Tin ,there was on H/D parabolic single spring that up rated the GVM capacity to 3.8 GVM, and the Compliance plates still remained 3500KG.
Are you looking for a tax plate compliance get out of ticket! or attempting to bring a 4 /5 series van back to 3.4 GVM to get out of the stricter emission controls applied to a 3500.5KG and over van.
I don't think you can do it with out a rectification from an engineer ,if you succeed then a new plate is designated as to the GVM ,now days its a transport approved yellow sticker stating it's new certificated weight.
One member in the UK has a 4.2 GVM SuSi super single wide rear wheel unit van that has a re-certificated plate back to 3.8 or 3500KG variant.and this is a current model 2010 NCV.
Richard

I know what a bump stop does.It is common practice to downrate to 3.5t in the UK, especially twin wheel 4.6t sprinters(1995-2000).You can not drive anything over 3.5t if you've passed your driving license after Jan 1997 in the UK. I really need someone who has a downrated 4.6t sprinter to reply.
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Old 10-05-2010, 09:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: Anyone with a 4xx sprinter downrated to 3.5 ton?

Hi Loz
I thought down rating was just a paperwork exercise here in the UK?
My understanding is that you have to fill in a VTG 10 form from VOSA.
VOSA may want to have a look at the van to see why you want to down rate it.
You don't have to put any kind of down rate kit on it as you are decreasing not increasing it's weight.
You will need to get a new VIN plate stating the new GVW and you will have to get that from Mercedes, if I where you I would talk to your local M.B. Commercial dealership in the first instance about down rating, it's a common enough occurrence.

Richard- Down rating for us in the UK is mainly for driving licence reasons (post 97 driving licences are limited to 3500kg without a higher (C1) test pass to extend to 7500kg entitlement) other plus' for down rate is a simpler (cheaper) yearly inspection (MOT) as to vehicle classification based on weight.
As usual your in-depth technical is truly impressive!
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Old 10-05-2010, 11:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: Anyone with a 4xx sprinter downrated to 3.5 ton?

Yes the Notifiable Alteration (VTG10) and a VOSA inspection are required, as well as a technical declaration from a competent source detailing the suspension calculations. The idea is that the packers are welded where the bump stops touch the axle thereby (crudely) restricting the suspension travel and preventing you from carrying the weight the van previously could. It's an effective if somewhat amateurish solution. Respringing seems a better approach to my mind, but hey what do I know?

Mercedes dealers don't get involved in the UK. Their point of view will be that you should've bought the van you needed to begin with. You could try speaking with Technical at Tongwell (UK Head Office) though - you will need them to support the proposed change for VOSA to accept it, as VOSA's data is based on DC's. It's unlikely to be an issue though, enough people have bought the teeshirt.

The technical data detailing the alterations will also need to be submitted - this is usually done by the competent source, not you. There are companies who do the whole thing for you, but the cheapest way will be for you to do it will be to buy a kit from one (with the packers) and weld them on locally whilst they do the paperwork for you. You need to paint the packers yellow prior to the inspection. You then arrange the VOSA inspection and submit your VTG10. If approved upon inspection and the paperwork is correct the new V5 with revised GVW will come back in the post.

From memory I think the packers will be ~30mm. I'm thinking it'll cost you between 200 and 500 depending on how you choose to do it.

Be aware that VOSA are getting keener by the month to take a look at vans in the 3.5/7.5t weight range.
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Old 10-05-2010, 11:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: Anyone with a 4xx sprinter downrated to 3.5 ton?

3500Kg passenger license OK Ours [Aus]are 4.99/ GVM over 5 MT reticulated driving licence required.
The lowest
We can lower a 5 series is back to 4.9 GVM yellow sticker job but engineering wise, no to 3500KG
Richard
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: Anyone with a 4xx sprinter downrated to 3.5 ton?

thanks for the replies.

It's dependant on the vehicle if it's a paper work only exercise.On the twin wheel sprinter an alteration and inspection is required. I've spoken to various companies and agencies about this. Merc say they change the springs over and they have tried to get the info to downrate from vosa but vosa won't tell them. Svtech want 300 basically which is way too much for what they do.

You can submit your own calculations along with your own packer/spacers and a completed VTG10 and Vosa will "assess it as an individual application"(their words)-and if their technical inspector accepts your method and calculations they wll down rate it(you don't need a new vin plate with the lower gross on-thats for vehicles that are not HGV)

So I just want to confirm what the actual spacer height is so I can base my calculations on that.

Is definitely 30mm?

thanks again,loz

Last edited by loz; 10-06-2010 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:32 PM   #10
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Default Re: Anyone with a 4xx sprinter downrated to 3.5 ton?

A likely story... Tongwell know what springs suit what. As if VOSA have all the answers and DC ask them for advice?!

Unless the vehicle is only ever used on private business and not Hire & Reward you may still need a new VIN plate though. Although you would know the van had been through the downrating excercise it would still appear to the casual observer to be 4,600kgs not 3,500kgs GVW. I'm assuming you would be proposing to tax it as Private Light Goods after downrating, which would create a contradiction between the VIN plate and the tax disc. Easy to sort though, you don't have to pester DC - PM me if you want help with that one.

I have the figure of 30mm in my head over the packers, but don't have anything on paper to confirm it - I'll see what I can do.

Edit: yes, they need to be 30mm in height. I'm afraid I don't have more information regarding the technical calculations.
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