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The Competition Discussion of other vehicles similar to the Sprinter; Transit, Promaster, etc.
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Old 01-17-2018, 02:54 PM   #21
Aqua Puttana
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Default Re: Engine overview Gasoline Promaster

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Originally Posted by lindenengineering View Post
Just a tip.
If you start experiencing misfires and a flashing CEL don't ignore it.
...
Dennis
Not to minimize your advice, but isn't that true with any flashing MIL aka CEL. The flashing indicates it is triggered by more serious issues than say, a loose fuel cap.

For Sprinter owners. The flashing MIL aka CEL feature doesn't seem to apply to Sprinter diesel engines. I have yet to see that light condition reported here. Added: So don't expect to ever see the additional/more serious flashing warning on a diesel Sprinter.

vic
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:49 PM   #22
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Default Re: Engine overview Gasoline Promaster

Vic
Well in gasoline engines miss firing sends gobs of un burnt fuel down the pipe contaminating the Cat(s) and often burning them up as the fuel mixture fares off!~
Apart from the NOx produced. the heat developed during flare off, destroys the "internal bricks" and that translates into money and extended down times!
Not to mention E failures!
It doesn't take long to take out Cats-Even factory ones
AND
CA certified Cats are more expensive than Fed ones.
Potentially wallet flushes.
Dennis
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:59 PM   #23
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Default Re: Engine overview Gasoline Promaster

I would have a difficult time accepting the 14-15.5 MPG of the gasoline-powered vans (I already have an SUV that gets that). I have really come to appreciate the Sprinter's 24-27 MPG and a 600 mile cruising range. On secondary roads at 40 MPH speeds it gets in the 30s.

From last week's trip to San Diego:


P.S. Average speed says 55 MPH but most of this trip was at 72 MPH, including a trip over the Grapevine, but SoCal traffic brought the average speed way down.

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Old 01-17-2018, 04:58 PM   #24
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Default Re: Engine overview Gasoline Promaster

I suppose the comment to your post is!!--Do you use your van for private & pleasure purposes and discretionary operation?

On the other hand is the van is used for a business activity such as core business support or expediting ?


If its the latter then a high number of "other" cost factors & considerations come into play and I have several customers that can prove on an annual cost spread sheet that the Promaster is better than Sprinter in cost per mile operation & reliability for them.

Obviously in the world of business and transportation many factors make up an individual business costing operation.;
Dennis
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Old 01-18-2018, 03:17 AM   #25
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Default Re: Engine overview Gasoline Promaster

17-18 mpg is normal for the gas PM. Some get >20. MrNomer gets >17 even with his lead foot because he enjoys its handling.

My oil change at the dealer is <$40.

I put 450,000 miles on one Mercedes 220D and 150,000 on another. That experience influenced my decision to get the gas PM.
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Old 01-18-2018, 04:15 AM   #26
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Default Re: Engine overview Gasoline Promaster

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17-18 mpg is normal for the gas PM. Some get >20. MrNomer gets >17 even with his lead foot because he enjoys its handling.

My oil change at the dealer is <$40.

I put 450,000 miles on one Mercedes 220D and 150,000 on another. That experience influenced my decision to get the gas PM.
Yes MPG is about what I hear from clients.
Obviously oil change pricing at dealers is a lost leader for them, so again price per oil change is about right as they want to get you into the door and upsell !
The only caution is the value of the oil & quality.
I tend to fill with higher end Euro blends but some horror stories have come my way from the trade insiders on using cheap oil in these vans .
They seems to go well on the good stuff!

The only other service stumble to date I have come across is the diesel transmission which has the dealers in a bit of a flap!
Anyway you sound like one of my customers Leo, the Ukrainian transplant in Denver !
Take a look!
All the best
Dennis

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Old 01-18-2018, 10:34 PM   #27
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Default Re: Engine overview Gasoline Promaster

Dealerships shoot themselves in the foot all the time. My mom has a BMW X5, and USED to go to the dealership for oil changes. They stripped her oil plug threads, claimed that SHE did it when she brought it back 2 days later because it was dripping oil, and wanted to sell her a new oil pan installed for $2500.

Someone else bought the German car dealerships in Bend, Oregon, Kendall, and she thought she would try them again. NOPE! after bringing in her car for just an oil change, they came out with a list of repairs and upgrades that they wanted her to do that tallied over $4000. The only thing "broken" on her car is the radio head unit. They were pretty aggressive and all but demanded that she approve the repairs but she was able to leave with just the oil change; after an hour of them not giving her back her keys while they tried to up-sell a bunch of service/repairs/upgrades that she didn't need or want.

She later heard that other people were having similar problems at all the dealerships that Kendall bought in Bend, and a man who lives in her town who worked there as a mechanic told her he was quitting, along with a bunch of other people, because of the way the dealership was trying to cheat and rob customers via the service department.

So, because they wanted to maximize profits, maybe to pay for the purchase of the dealerships, they have REDUCED profits because they drove away customers. Not a good business model.
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Old 01-26-2018, 12:37 PM   #28
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Default Re: Engine overview Gasoline Promaster

Well, despite these warnings, I've done my research and ordered a promaster based class B van. It will be my "daily" and see light towing duty as well. The positives just seemed to farrrrrr outweigh the negatives. I thought I would NEVER sell my T1N, and I may regret it, or maybe not. It IS a 12 year old vehicle at this point and rust is inevitable in the northeast. I will miss the stellar perfomance of the 5 cylinder, and the 500 mile range.

Next adventure begins in April.
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Old 01-26-2018, 12:45 PM   #29
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Default Re: Engine overview Gasoline Promaster

The Pentastar's cylinder head problems are well known, even before they ever decided to put them (along with that crappy 6sp slushbox) in the Promaster. Recycled minivan drivetrains in a big van.... hmmmm.... yeah, that'll work.

Our shop does LOTS of valve jobs on Pentastars. They are not a long lived engine. The valves burn and fail easily. And they put these engines in everything now, as they replaced ALL the other V6s in their entire line. Wranglers, minivans, Challengers, Journeys, they all get cursed with them. Even the pickups.

Keeps us busy though. Big, expensive, labor intensive job. And you do not get dirty, as they simply don't last long enough to get that way. Plus, if the valves are not failing, the vario-displacement oil pump or one of the vario-cam gizmos is.
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Old 01-26-2018, 01:13 PM   #30
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Default Re: Engine overview Gasoline Promaster

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Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
The Pentastar's cylinder head problems are well known, even before they ever decided to put them (along with that crappy 6sp slushbox) in the Promaster. Recycled minivan drivetrains in a big van.... hmmmm.... yeah, that'll work.

Our shop does LOTS of valve jobs on Pentastars. They are not a long lived engine. The valves burn and fail easily. And they put these engines in everything now, as they replaced ALL the other V6s in their entire line. Wranglers, minivans, Challengers, Journeys, they all get cursed with them. Even the pickups.

Keeps us busy though. Big, expensive, labor intensive job. And you do not get dirty, as they simply don't last long enough to get that way. Plus, if the valves are not failing, the vario-displacement oil pump or one of the vario-cam gizmos is.
Heads jobs --Yes!
I see that the factory is now giving 150,000 miles warranty on heads.
Yes the engine based upon an MB product is the universal MOPAR fit.
I have always stated that the transmission emerging with the original minivan was a problem back in the 80's!!!
They have had enough time it get it right--or NOT!

I suppose the emerging issue is the diesel :"touch shift" transmission with huge electrical communication issues dictating factory intervention and massive part shotgunning to reinstate the van to service.

Then there's the "ultimate" wallet flush Mitsupussy diesel engine where the injectors and glow plugs become "one" in the head!
One incidence i know or is where the local dealer near my shop changed a head due to busted glow plugs @ $8000 only have to do it again a year later, due to yet another glow plug problem!
That would take the gloss off any enthusiastic ownership I would think!! ERK!

I am in the process (for my shop) in selecting a new EDM hole popper or compete machine cutting tool to recover some of these heads.
All prompted by popular demand by some of the shops here in Denver.
Its all good for the auto repair business !
Dennis
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