Sprinter-Forum    
 

Go Back   Sprinter-Forum > General Forums > The Competition

The Competition Discussion of other vehicles similar to the Sprinter; Transit, Promaster, etc.
Subforums: Write-Ups


 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-23-2015, 07:33 AM   #1
4strokemike
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA. Massachusetts
Posts: 29
Thanks: 18
Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Default Hyundai H350 Competition

Now Hyundai is in the game

http://youtu.be/uOaCPicZBYI
4strokemike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2015, 03:02 PM   #2
lindenengineering
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Littleton Colorado
Posts: 10,456
Thanks: 2,489
Thanked 8,496 Times in 4,419 Posts
Default Re: Competition

Ah visual appearances.

Great when eyeing woman as they walk by when sat on a park bench.
BUT as usual does this woman that twangs your fancy have any substance?

Just as looking at the "phoor" female so goes my questioning of that van!
Now no emotion coming from a commercial vehicle background all my life!
So that stated being a commercial vehicle guy; I am always prompted to ask what is under the hood/bonnet, in fact what is the transmission?
Then all these techie and non appearance questions roar through my head.

Can it haul 3000 lbs of chilled crawdads from New Orleans to Denver and give 21.7 to 22 mph.
Can it do this day after day for four months with two drivers. In fact can it compete with the airlines who want that crawdad business?
Off topic (thank God the USA has a pizz poor high speed rail system, now there's competition)
Whats the ownership/operating costs?
What is its durability of this Hyundai in the world of commercial vehicles; including costs of parts and anticipated downtime. Again Parts availability, Prices, what and where?
Bottom line will it make me a buck?
I like to make "green money" and yellow metal.
Or should I not ask these impertinent questions and be typically English OR be more American and crass about talking money?
Dennis
lindenengineering is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to lindenengineering For This Useful Post:
Bobnoxious (05-18-2016)
Old 01-27-2015, 10:35 PM   #3
surlyoldbill
 
surlyoldbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: richmond, ca
Posts: 6,970
Thanks: 2,358
Thanked 2,459 Times in 1,692 Posts
Default Re: Hyundai H350 Competition

Kia/Hyundai is among the top for long term quality according to recent reviews.
The H350 will not only have to meet US emissions and safety and acceleration minimums, but will have to come with an automatic transmission to attract US customers. I suspect the drivetrain will get re-worked before it hits USA.
__________________
Former owner of Surly Mobile:
2003 140shc 2500 passenger model, now owner of Transit T250 148MR 3.7
mobile design office, cargo hauler, family shuttle, action adventure base
surlyoldbill is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to surlyoldbill For This Useful Post:
Bobnoxious (05-18-2016)
Old 01-29-2015, 08:08 AM   #4
Wblynch
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 10
Thanks: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Hyundai H350 Competition

Those things running all over Asia serving commercial needs
Wblynch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2015, 02:13 PM   #5
lindenengineering
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Littleton Colorado
Posts: 10,456
Thanks: 2,489
Thanked 8,496 Times in 4,419 Posts
Default Re: Hyundai H350 Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wblynch View Post
Those things running all over Asia serving commercial needs
Yeh so they might be!
But Asia isn't North America!

One thing I learned working for three major manufactures what might work in one territory might not work in another!.
None moreso can be the mature sophisticated US market THAT on the face of it is similar to Western Europe, BUT the mantra "what works in Europe will work in Yankee Land" is an expression which comes from the mouth of someone who knows little about the nuances of the US auto scene !
Many Euro auto manufacturers have ignored this basic fact that the US market is quite unique!
I can cite BMW, (who have got burned 7 Series) Jaguar, Landrover, Sterling, Audi, Peugeot, Citroen, Renault, Maserati, Fiat to name just a few who have all dabbled, come and gone having been burned by US market sales and service scene.
Some have persevered like Landrover/ Jaguar and won significant market share but under the hood beats these days a Ford Lincoln power pack that is far superior to the over complicated useless expensive BMW "lump" that was its predecessor!

The commercial vehicle business is even more cut throat and protective. The Truck/ Bus and light medium /duty parc is well protected by local manufacturing conglomerates; not an easy market to penetrate & profit AND rail, even light rail is very tough!
Operating/market conditions are far different than Western Europe for example!
In short:-
Things must never be assumed!
Dennis
lindenengineering is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to lindenengineering For This Useful Post:
Steven W Artz (06-08-2016)
Old 02-22-2015, 04:52 PM   #6
mojogoat
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 569
Thanks: 47
Thanked 151 Times in 105 Posts
Default Re: Hyundai H350 Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindenengineering View Post
Yeh so they might be!
But Asia isn't North America!

One thing I learned working for three major manufactures what might work in one territory might not work in another!.
None moreso can be the mature sophisticated US market THAT on the face of it is similar to Western Europe, BUT the mantra "what works in Europe will work in Yankee Land" is an expression which comes from the mouth of someone who knows little about the nuances of the US auto scene !
Many Euro auto manufacturers have ignored this basic fact that the US market is quite unique!
I can cite BMW, (who have got burned 7 Series) Jaguar, Landrover, Sterling, Audi, Peugeot, Citroen, Renault, Maserati, Fiat to name just a few who have all dabbled, come and gone having been burned by US market sales and service scene.
Some have persevered like Landrover/ Jaguar and won significant market share but under the hood beats these days a Ford Lincoln power pack that is far superior to the over complicated useless expensive BMW "lump" that was its predecessor!

The commercial vehicle business is even more cut throat and protective. The Truck/ Bus and light medium /duty parc is well protected by local manufacturing conglomerates; not an easy market to penetrate & profit AND rail, even light rail is very tough!
Operating/market conditions are far different than Western Europe for example!
In short:-
Things must never be assumed!
Dennis
I agree, you explain why Ford is outselling the sprinter,promaster (fiat), and nissan vans.
mojogoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2015, 06:21 PM   #7
lindenengineering
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Littleton Colorado
Posts: 10,456
Thanks: 2,489
Thanked 8,496 Times in 4,419 Posts
Default Re: Hyundai H350 Competition

One thing I will state about Ford is that they are very clever at gauging market conditions and introducing products at JUST the right time!

If you look a the NA market as a whole they allow market forces to create a perfect condition for a particular model/platform to be introduced. None more so than the timely phase out of the stalwart E Series. Intro of the full size Transit.
Now the full size Transit a FWD rendition in Europe, becomes a traditional RWD application for NA markets. Easily acceptable for traditional Ford commercial vehicle operators accustomed to the old van with badge loyalty.

Now the killer!
Take MB Sprinters head on with a comparable product, grabbing market share.

With the less than stellar reputation of the older 902/903 TINs (appalling Dodge dealer support and corrosion issues) the vehicle nonetheless paved the way to Euro styling acceptability for vans in the US/NA markets.

Then came the 906 (NCV3) in limited 3.5 gasoline it was fine but the V6 3,00 litre has been less of a success story for MB.

The engine certainly doesn't like extended idling periods and in the hands of owners that use it as a commuter car, sooting up has been real area issue especially for the post 2010 units with AdBlue exhaust after treatment systems.
These issues along have dented MB's image as a premium vehicle makers in the eyes of the NA buying public.
Certainly at fleet level the lack of nationwide service and the sight of fleets broken down on the highway or limping along has made some fleet operator look hard at their operations.
I for one see that CME has put a fair number of Transits into service on their ski route shuttle service from DIA.

My old friend Jim of our Leyland days (now retired from MB UK) always mentioned to me that the Sprinter is a commercial vehicle and should be serviced and supported as such by truck support operations 24/7 not swank MB car dealerships who only work from 9 to 5, five days per week.
He maintains MB USA has shot themselves in the foot and its only time that will prove it!
So we will see!

Now I have my personal views but they are not relevant to the overall picture.
Just for the record I am a Benz aficionado. My favorite is the Actros and the Argosy here.
But as with all MB products I like the safety aspect and the precision but in so many cases it doesn't sell units. Price, reliability and operating cost will determine the winner!
As always in this commercial vehicle business its bean counters that have their way in the ultimo. In short its the American way!
Any doubts?--History in engineering can always remind us.

Joseph Whitworth, Englishman & entrepreneur
World famous for devising a common thread nut and bolts system amongst other things.
Universally lauded in the US for coming up with the idea.
But then US thinking shaved off the size of the nuts and bolt heads to save money plus an odd pitch change and there you have it SAE UNF * UNC bolting systems.
American Bean Counters at work and no-one should discount American ingenuity especially where Ford is concerned.
Dennis
lindenengineering is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to lindenengineering For This Useful Post:
Bobnoxious (08-28-2016)
Old 02-22-2015, 08:25 PM   #8
Graphite Dave
Dave Orton
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Occidental, Ca.
Posts: 6,854
Thanks: 1,157
Thanked 4,239 Times in 2,410 Posts
Default Re: Hyundai H350 Competition

The problems with modern clean diesels is the extensive systems required to meet the emission requirements. All manufacturers are affected by the increased complexity required.

I expect Mercedes will add a gas option for the Sprinter. I am sure they are monitoring the percentage of diesel vs. gas engines that Ford sells with the Transit.

Ford obviously disassembled a few Sprinters to pick the good parts and discarded the bad. It will be interesting watching the amount of sales for each of the competitors as Ford ramps up their Transit production.

I will say I prefer my new gas Transit compared to my sold 08 diesel Sprinter. The biggest surprise is how well it handles compared to the Sprinter. Did not expect much difference. I thought the Sprinter handled as well as could be expected for a big van.

It will also be interesting what drive train will be sold by Hyundai.

The addition of competition in the category will force improvements for all manufacturers vehicles.
__________________
Sold 2008 diesel NCV3 144" WB high roof DIY conversion
2015 gas Transit 148" WB high roof for another conversion
Graphite Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Graphite Dave For This Useful Post:
Bobnoxious (08-29-2016), boyscout (09-22-2018)
Old 02-22-2015, 09:00 PM   #9
mojogoat
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 569
Thanks: 47
Thanked 151 Times in 105 Posts
Default Re: Hyundai H350 Competition

I'm amazed by the acceleration of my gas Promaster with the standard engine, Dave, you must have a bigger grin with almost 400 HP, no worries about merging into traffic anymore or passing on hills.
mojogoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2015, 09:56 PM   #10
lindenengineering
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Littleton Colorado
Posts: 10,456
Thanks: 2,489
Thanked 8,496 Times in 4,419 Posts
Default Re: Hyundai H350 Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphite Dave View Post
The problems with modern clean diesels is the extensive systems required to meet the emission requirements. All manufacturers are affected by the increased complexity required.

I expect Mercedes will add a gas option for the Sprinter. I am sure they are monitoring the percentage of diesel vs. gas engines that Ford sells with the Transit.

Ford obviously disassembled a few Sprinters to pick the good parts and discarded the bad. It will be interesting watching the amount of sales for each of the competitors as Ford ramps up their Transit production.

I will say I prefer my new gas Transit compared to my sold 08 diesel Sprinter. The biggest surprise is how well it handles compared to the Sprinter. Did not expect much difference. I thought the Sprinter handled as well as could be expected for a big van.

It will also be interesting what drive train will be sold by Hyundai.

The addition of competition in the category will force improvements for all manufacturers vehicles.
Dave for info
All manufacturers buy their principle competition products and tear them to pieces and study the components. Looking at repair times, build costs , and innovation that maybe the competitors product has over theirs.
Its called Methods and Techniques and every factory has a division solely dedicated to this activity.
What I will tell you from my own "hands on" experience is that the V6 diesel engine the Sprinter is not only a costly engine to build but also to repair.
Book time alone for an overhaul is 57 hours minimum. I would be forging a preferred an argument on this factor alone!

The worst thing about the Sprinter is the dearth of information to do just the simple tasks. Luckily I have as a Pro in the business I have access to workshop info not available to the individual owner nor operator.

The worst part of providing service for Sprinters is the availability of parts.
I have more parts available than the three dealers in my area.
With a bit of clever parts stocking dialogue I can get almost everything from them to fill in the gaps and that "fill in" gives me the just in time stuff I need on a daily basis. I have three company Prius' for Metro area collections in emergencies if I need to!
Nevertheless i get caught out !
Like last week I have a Sprinter expediter carrying human organs for an emergency surgery.
His LHR wheel speed sensor has gone down so no abs traction control etc in ice an snow!

Now I keep wheel speed sensors in stock for all models but I was short of the one he needed!
MB system didn't have one with a 24 to 48 hour delay.
Mopar only has only 5 in the USA none in Denver.
Napa has an Echlin aftermarket but in Salt Lake City!
So as usual the company Sprinter gets parts raided for a component part to avoid a VOR.
Ridiculous.
That alone in my opinion is a result of the car dealer mantra not a commercial vehicle posture like Volvo, Kenworth or Freightliner.
If I was promoting Ford to a Sprinter operator that would be my first line of competition attack; notably getting you back on the road 24/7.
Dennis
lindenengineering is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to lindenengineering For This Useful Post:
Bobnoxious (05-18-2016), dynaco1 (10-07-2015)

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.