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The Competition Discussion of other vehicles similar to the Sprinter; Transit, Promaster, etc.
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Old 03-07-2018, 11:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: Mail in Transit

Quote:
Originally Posted by asimba2 View Post
The Vanco office was full of PG&E Transits undergoing upfits the day I was there, so I struck up a conversation with the fleet manager about their vans. He indicated the Sprinter had a lower total operating cost than the competition but said upper management chose to buy a fleet of Ford Transits due to customer perception of employees driving Mercedes vehicles. Not sure why they didn't look at the Freightliner version.

I have to question if USPS is getting away from the Promaster due to reliability problems. My Postman drives one and he said all of their Promasters are taking turns puking transmissions and cylinder heads.



Unless they are still getting the T1N vans?

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Old 03-08-2018, 02:08 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bobnoxious View Post
I think that was one of Trump's first requirements he signed. GOV agencies had to buy American?
BUT
What is buy American?
The statement is easy to make by any standards, but in today's world of globalization that is not easy to achieve.
Speaking of vans; On this topic there can only be three practical choices.

Chrysler's Ram Promaster-made at the Saltillo Works in Mexico. A manifestation of the Nafta agreement and the global operations of the company now called Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V.
or the FCA group;. a global operation. Essentially the Promaster is a Mexican product only the name on the front is can be construed as American.

Ford's big Transit Van.
Made at a plant founded originally in 1951; called the Claycomo Plant.
The V6 Eco Boost is made in Ohio, the smaller engines are made on Europe.
Component suppliers are worldwide.
So this van passes the litmus test for made in America ,but its made out of parts/components sourced worldwide including the USA.

The MB Sprinter.
Assembled in the USA from CKD & PKD units made in Germany.
This is a curious operation by any standards!
In the past by using other major manufacturers examples operating worldwide & using that example as a benchmark . This MB plant establishment locally is there to meet local territory requirements on trade restrictions, local content, (particularly labor element ) and laws.
In the case of the USA notably the "chicken tax" and its implications are probably paramount here.
American material content is minimal. Just about squeezes through by "design planning " as assembled in the USA.

As a commentary footnote & not connected in any way to Made in USA litmus test .
it can be stated from a quality perspective PKD/CKD from previously "built" fully assembled units (CKD especially) , potentially present huge quality control nightmare scenarios upon re-assembly.

So the Ford by any measure meets the litmus test of Made in America of parts sourced locally worldwide.
The MB product meets enough in the labor content to met a bare minimum, just!
The FCA Chrysler product is just about wholely made out of the USA, has some American content but made in Mexico a NAFTA partner.
Does it pass the Made in America litmus test?
-Well hardly!

Digressing a bit in to the realm of auto manufacturing in the USA and American content, the Toyota Camry is just about all made in the USA!
Welcome to the curious world of the automobile.
Dennis

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Old 03-08-2018, 03:03 PM   #13
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Default Re: Mail in Transit

So what about out $800 billion trade deficit with Europe, along with their fair trade barriers. Looks like Transit Trumps the Sprinter in that respect.
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Old 03-08-2018, 03:34 PM   #14
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Default Re: Mail in Transit

Well you have moved somewhat off topic with vans and the USPS, plus made in the USA litmus test.

Not wanting to turn this into yet other acidic exchange, the figures are at best hyped by the US President.
A clearer picture can be obtained obtained from US Gov sources who track these things.
Your numbers are a bit bit skewed with the EEC as mentioned .
Take a look at this:-
https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/e...european-union

Dennis
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Old 03-08-2018, 08:03 PM   #15
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Default Re: Mail in Transit

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindenengineering View Post
BUT
What is buy American?
The statement is easy to make by any standards, but in today's world of globalization that is not easy to achieve.
Speaking of vans; On this topic there can only be three practical choices.

Chrysler's Ram Promaster-made at the Saltillo Works in Mexico. A manifestation of the Nafta agreement and the global operations of the company now called Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V.
or the FCA group;. a global operation. Essentially the Promaster is a Mexican product only the name on the front is can be construed as American.

Ford's big Transit Van.
Made at a plant founded originally in 1951; called the Claycomo Plant.
The V6 Eco Boost is made in Ohio, the smaller engines are made on Europe.
Component suppliers are worldwide.
So this van passes the litmus test for made in America ,but its made out of parts/components sourced worldwide including the USA.

The MB Sprinter.
Assembled in the USA from CKD & PKD units made in Germany.
This is a curious operation by any standards!
In the past by using other major manufacturers examples operating worldwide & using that example as a benchmark . This MB plant establishment locally is there to meet local territory requirements on trade restrictions, local content, (particularly labor element ) and laws.
In the case of the USA notably the "chicken tax" and its implications are probably paramount here.
American material content is minimal. Just about squeezes through by "design planning " as assembled in the USA.

As a commentary footnote & not connected in any way to Made in USA litmus test .
it can be stated from a quality perspective PKD/CKD from previously "built" fully assembled units (CKD especially) , potentially present huge quality control nightmare scenarios upon re-assembly.

So the Ford by any measure meets the litmus test of Made in America of parts sourced locally worldwide.
The MB product meets enough in the labor content to met a bare minimum, just!
The FCA Chrysler product is just about wholely made out of the USA, has some American content but made in Mexico a NAFTA partner.
Does it pass the Made in America litmus test?
-Well hardly!

Digressing a bit in to the realm of auto manufacturing in the USA and American content, the Toyota Camry is just about all made in the USA!
Welcome to the curious world of the automobile.
Dennis
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindenengineering View Post
Well you have moved somewhat off topic with vans and the USPS, plus made in the USA litmus test.

Not wanting to turn this into yet other acidic exchange, the figures are at best hyped by the US President.
A clearer picture can be obtained obtained from US Gov sources who track these things.
Your numbers are a bit bit skewed with the EEC as mentioned .
Take a look at this:-
https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/e...european-union

Dennis
Really, I did that?
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Old 03-09-2018, 04:42 AM   #16
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Default Re: Mail in Transit

I always thought it was odd that the USPS used those...mail trucks...instead of a readily available, easily repairable vehicle. What are those type vehicles called? Commercial durable vehicle or something?
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Old 03-09-2018, 11:51 AM   #17
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Default Re: Mail in Transit

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Originally Posted by surlyoldbill View Post
I always thought it was odd that the USPS used those...mail trucks...instead of a readily available, easily repairable vehicle. What are those type vehicles called? Commercial durable vehicle or something?
Grumman Long Life Vehicle
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Old 03-09-2018, 02:29 PM   #18
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Default Re: Mail in Transit

These are relatively short production run variations on a standard chassis.
Due to the nature of the production and parts availability economics, the cost savings (if any) by using a specialist bodybuilder often far outweigh the immediate cost benefits of using a standard vehicle off the peg. The same can be said of long term durability cycles and fleet disposable/acquisition cost benefits.

Can be summed up as trying to reinvent the wheel in some cases . Furthermore in today's mass vehicle production & unitary module construction, the cost to produce a short run specialist vehicle are even higher making acquisition a challenge especially on costings .
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Old 03-09-2018, 02:41 PM   #19
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Default Re: Mail in Transit

Transit Parcel Delivery

http://www.spartanmotors.com/fleet-v...very/velocity/
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Old 03-11-2018, 04:11 PM   #20
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Default Re: Mail in Transit

Yes here is an example of a typical modular body!
The chassis unit is a fixed chassis/ cab in this case Ford.

The cab moulding is custom fibreglass /GRP to fit the Ford cab section either by bonding or rivets .
The section over the wheel arch is standard fit any chassis being 8' 2,5 inches wide. The section aft of the wheel arch is standard fit anything.
The section up to the cab line is semi custom.
The roof is overlapping panels using any "plastic material" like ABS and the whole structure is given its own rigidity to prevent lozenging by the introduction of what is called a sole bar around the body perimeter during laying down of the body on the fame. The modular sections have integral roof sticks and U sections to provide the rigidity.

This is a fairly standard style of body construction you see world wide.
Some features like the corner moulding sections are very North American and its appearance shouts its American built.
The concept isn't new, in fact its very universal with theme variations from bodybuilder to builder.

I suppose its worth mentioning that the same can be said of a basic bus body concept for low skilled local on territory manufacturing in CKD & PKD operations using modular sections provided by the manufacturers.
One notable company was Duple-TI-Metsec it WAS a big player in this manufacturing & export activity known as "Bus in a Box". It is however subject to very competitive practices on pricing competition & price pointing; being fairly labor intensive. Using offshore manufacturing and assembly options and the cost of labor in developing countries makes it even harder to compete against, when stacked up against advanced industrialized countries where base labor costs & some material sourcing are far higher.
The price of the body parts for this Spartan body are quite expensive when it comes to replacement components .(No surprise there !)
Dennis

P.S
If any of you have interest in this section of the industry which has come and gone, here is an archive editorial:-
http://archive.commercialmotor.com/a...buses-in-boxes
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