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Old 11-22-2017, 03:48 PM   #1
Aqua Puttana
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Default Only one ignition chip key? Nervous?

You should be nervous. If anything happens to your present ignition key it will cost you time and probably more money than necessary.

This modification has been discussed elsewhere. I figured that I'd condense the info to one place.

Install a Permanent Chip for Starting

Thanks goes to One call a/c.

Quote:
Originally Posted by One call a/c View Post
So much easier to epoxy the chip from the key to the transponder ring


Howboutcha-

Added by vic:
The chip is best levered out using the Three Point Star side of the OEM key. I used a small thin blade screwdriver to slide in on the sides a bit to first loosen. I suppose that an Exacto blade could work, but they are brittle. After that I pried the chip holder up/out until I could grab it with pliers. I distorted the key plastic, but it formed back enough that the empty holder could be re-inserted. The chip holder and chip are pretty rugged so damaging them isn't a real concern.

If you epoxy the chip into place, test any chip location choice before final epoxy. My chip wouldn't work unless in specific positions. The alignment and position of the narrow end of the chip seem to be critical. Narrow end goes near the face as shown.

The sensing ring can be easily accessed by removing 2 ea. screws above the FB#1 and tipping the plastic housing down. A pair of needle nose pliers can then position and set the chip using Goop glue. Either side of the cable tombstone can be selected for the chip installation. Favor the chip being as close to the face of the ring as practical. Even if it is a bit proud, before hardening, the Goop glue will let the chip slide back a bit when the outer plastic housing cover is re-installed. Unlike epoxy, Goop glue allows easy re-positioning. Once cured it will tenaciously hold the chip into place.

Plastic handle OEM appearing un-programmed or non-chip brass keys are cheap to buy. Look for brass. I couldn't find a local locksmith to cut a steel key for me. I recommend choosing an OEM key look-a-like rather than a plain brass key. Then you will walk like a duck.

SKREEMchip01.jpg

SKREEMchip02.jpg
Steel OEM style key. It fits, but most locksmiths will not cut a steel key. I hand cut/copied mine.
https://www.amazon.com/SODIAL-Replac.../dp/B01A2SNBAK


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post

Cheaper Key for T1N Doors MB17, etc.

...

A recent thread/post listed some key blanks which should work for the doors only. A properly cut ILCO MB-17 blank works for certain. I have a DL YM19 key which a locksmitth cut and works fine on my 2004 doors. I can't speak for the other blanks listed here.

The list:

(Thanks goes to Autostaretx)

A nice feature of that site is their list of MB-17 equilavents:
o Curtis MB37
o Dominion (DL) YM19
o ESP MB17
o Ilco MB17 (Key handle size needs to be reduced to extend key length.)
o JMA ME-HM
o Silca YM15
o Taylor M81X
**************
Some additional info from another site.

Reference 1
IC Card 152 (RFID clone reference?)
Silca Card 15 (RFID clone reference?)
Silca Key Blank YM15
ILCA key Blank MB17
Keyline Key Blank YS15
JMA Key Blank ME-HM

YM15T5-SI Silca Transponder Key
**************
Edit: It was suggested that a MB19 fits and is long enough to insert into the ignition without modification. I have no verification on this suggestion, but probably worth checking.

--dick
***
Some links with even more key related information.
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...B17#post110868
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...692#post155692
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=27049

vic

Some general information about how the transponder chip works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Good observation.

I have no information either. *My guess* is that clone key architecture is different from OEM keys. I have no data.

For those who may be a bit foggy on the RFID chip technology.

There is a responder chip buried in the key or Fob. The ignition key transponder ring creates an electrical field around the chip. That provides enough energy for the chip to chirp/transmit an identity code. No battery is needed for the chip to work. (Card key access to buildings uses similar technology.)

The transponder ring receives the chirped code which allows a module(s) to interpret whether that code is from a key that has been programmed into the security system.

Clone keys copy the chirped code so that it appears the same as an already introduced/saved security code. To my knowledge, a clone key cannot be introduced as a new key to the security system. An OEM chipped key that has not been properly introduced/saved into the security system will not be recognized. The dealership needs to add it to your vehicle security database.

vic

Added:
A local locksmith mentioned that there are different technologies for cloning. Apparently some are more reliable than others. He said that he no longer uses copy cloning because they can lose the program. He didn't elaborate. I don't know the details. Another locksmith commented that copy cloning Mercedes products is sometimes "finicky".
I have noticed that the OEM chips are located on the inside of the key close to the sensing ring. Most of the aftermarket keys that I've seen place the chip on the opposite edge. That moves the chip a bit further away vs OEM. Is that position less reliable/critical?

More info from Autostaretx Dick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by autostaretx View Post
...
p.s. hint for other one-key people: take a decent *photograph* of your key (with a ruler nearby)
... many locksmiths can work from that, too... (many years ago a forum-member locksmith successfully did it from my key photo)
Mechanical copies [before needed] are really cheap insurance:

Attachment 92407
20180906 Added:
SOS Key Option
A pretty good deal actually.

From RJV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJV View Post
I'm in a similar situation and have been following your key saga on the various threads.

It won't fit into the door because it is too thick? You might try filing the thickness down to see if it works. Others have had varying degrees of success in doing so.

I gave this advice to another member the other day: Everyone likes to save a few bucks, and all the members here, in general, prefer DIY methods when possible. But at a certain point you have to ask yourself what your time, and the headache is worth. I've spent at least 6hrs driving around trying to DIY a key or having a locksmith do it, etc. Nothing has worked and I'm down to 1 remaining original working key on my 2006(regular non fob key). I contacted SOS Diagnostics and for $40 they'll make duplicate non fob keys that work in door and ignition. So the way I'm looking at it, for $160 and the price of 1 day shipping the key to and from SOS, I can get 4 working keys and I won't have to deal with the hassle any longer. So that's what I'm going to be doing next week.

I do believe they can make the $40 non fob key for you from your fob key.

Now, I realize that might not be as easy for everyone as it is for me--I have another vehicle I can use during that time so I won't be without one for the 3-5 days my 1 working key will be gone.

Here's the email I got from them regarding pricing:

Sprinter 2002-06 duplicates

The programming charge for factory original keys is $100.

Factory remote keys are $330 each (subject to price changes by MB. Not all vans are equipped with this option) and the programming. We need the van present or the immobilizer module (SKREEM) shipped for programming. The keys are special order by VIN. The turnaround time for these keys is 2-6 business days after deposit.

Parts needed:

SKREEM / WSP

Copies of owners’ Registration and Government Issue I.D.

Completed “Secure Data Release” forms

Aftermarket non-remote keys that will start your van are $40 each including programming. The turnaround time is one business day.

Parts needed:

One working key


A “hide-a-key” or a key that will only open the door is $3. For these keys we only need a good working key for duplication. The turnaround time is one business day.

Note: Used remotes from a different van cannot be programmed. Remotes are VIN specific.

SKREEM removal instructions

Why use SOS for your programming? First, because of our reputation, check our feedback. Second, because we have programmed hundreds of ECU's and keys and we have a complex inventory of high quality equipment and test vehicles to ensure parts and programming are good and ready for plug-and-run installation. You may find someone on the internet advertising a cheaper price, but few have the experience and the ability to program and test parts like we can. Ask them how they will test your parts.

Turnaround times can vary due to varying work load and employee vacations. We quote many jobs daily and do not know exact dates about when items will arrive here for programming. To confirm your turnaround time, feel free to ask before shipping your parts. Please include the date your shipment is expected to arrive at our location if making this request.

Our FAQ page will answer most questions not addressed in your quote or on the shipment forms.

If you have no further questions regarding your quote, no further correspondence is necessary. You can ship the parts and forms indicated above if you decide to use our service.

All packages must include the completed and signed shipping forms (only all-keys-lost programming and odometer correction require proof of ownership documents). VIN numbers are always 17 characters long so all boxes must be filled. Shipping forms can be found on the “contact us” page of the sosdiagnostics.com website. Please review these forms for more information about shipping and billing.

Packages from outside the US must also include the completed international shipping forms. If we have to process customs forms, we charge a $25 customs handling fee on top of the actual UPS shipping for orders outside the US. You can calculate approximate costs using http://www.UPS.com

Shipment Form / International Authorization Form

NOTE: please attach this message to all replies.

Thank you,

Chad Edwards

SOS Diagnostics / SOS Lock Service


IMPORTANT NOTE FOR REMOTE FOB SPRINTERS.

The remote locks will not function when the RFID chip is glued to the ignition ring.
Thanks goes to Graytea and Autostaretx Dick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by autostaretx View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Another fact:
Mother Mercedes does like to over-engineer systems.

Maybe they tied them together...
Bingo...

I just went out and tried it.

If my key is sitting in the ignition (engine off, key in "zero" position)

...(drum roll) ...

The fob buttons DO NOT WORK!

If i pull my key out, but hold the fob in the same next-to-hole/bezel position: they DO NOT WORK.

If i pull my key out and hold it 6 inches away ... THEY DO WORK.

So: if the chip is sensed, the remote fob is ignored.

--dick (experimentation!)
p.s. the SKREEM, CTM (central timing module) and Security System Module (under driver's seat) have their own private communication wire ... see page 8w-39-6 in the 2006 service manual. (i'm still looking for the bezel antenna connection... i think it'll be the ECM itself.)
p.p.s. the "can't remotely lock (or unlock) with key in place" means your co-driver can't lock you out of the Sprinter when your keys are in the ignition.
If the remote lock Fob is to remain functional the RFID chip needs to remain inside the Fob.
(I thank my lucky stars that my used 2006 came with 4 ea. remote Fobs... I needed to ask them to look around and find the spares.)

Boeingpilot provides the whole enchilada.

Key cutting, clone, everything needed for DIY. One option is just the clone machine with a BRASS key cut by local locksmith.

DIY Cloned Keys - Clone and Cutting Machines
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...489#post753489
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Old 11-22-2017, 07:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: Only one key? Nervous?

what key is this for? mine has the flip out key embedded in the key fob like my camaro, has the grooved slot as well, not like a normal key
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Old 11-22-2017, 08:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: Only one key? Nervous?

I think that is a cloned key you can purchase third party. I got one from Ace Hardware. I only had one FOB when I bought the van and I knew I'd be effed if I lost it, with repacement cost being absurd. I also got a non chipped key to fasten to my wetsuit while in the water, and leave chipped keys hidden in van.
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Old 11-22-2017, 08:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: Only one key? Nervous?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodean View Post
what key is this for? mine has the flip out key embedded in the key fob like my camaro, has the grooved slot as well, not like a normal key
The key pictured above is OEM style for a T1N Sprinter that doesn't have the remote lock option.

If you have the Fob switchblade key you have remote locks. There is a chip contained within the button case. That chip can be removed and installed as indicated above.

vic
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:16 PM   #5
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Default Re: Only one key? Nervous?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodean View Post
what key is this for? mine has the flip out key embedded in the key fob like my camaro, has the grooved slot as well, not like a normal key
Dodge/Freightliner/MB sold (sell) two different key styles for the T1N (1999-2006) Sprinters

If you have Remote Key Entry (RKE), you got the flip-out style

If you do NOT have RKE, you got a "normal" key, with a plastic cover on the handle ("bow").

Both styles have the RFID chip in the plastic... in the non-RKE, it's just buried in there.

On the RKE flip-key, the blade (the part with the tumbler-matching cuts) can be separately replaced (if you break it), without replacing the entire plastic RKE-and-chip unit.

Here's a 3rd party no-chip "mechanical" key compared to the flip-unit.

KeyCompares.jpg

--dick
RFID: Radio Frequency IDentification
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Get YOUR Sprinter's full configuration datacard by entering your VIN to https://www.datamb.com/
http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference <-- lots of service documentation, Thanks to Jens Moller and Arnie_Oli
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Old 11-24-2017, 08:07 PM   #6
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Default Re: Only one ignition key? Nervous?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
This modification has been discussed elsewhere. I figured that I'd condense the info to one place.

Install a Permanent Chip for Starting

Thanks goes to One call a/c.

vic
Nice, I like this idea. However if someone does somehow end up with your keys they don't also have your entire van and it's contents.

Would a magnet interfere with the RFID chip?

If not gluing chip to a neodyninium magnet that you would move closer to sensor when starting may be another helpful addition.
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Old 11-24-2017, 08:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: Only one ignition key? Nervous?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertAdventures View Post
Nice, I like this idea. However if someone does somehow end up with your keys they don't also have your entire van and it's contents.

...
I guess that I don't really understand your concern.

If someone ends up with your OEM chipped key you lose your entire van too.

Extra chipped keys can be expensive. That is especially true if you lose your one and only key. You then need to start from scratch.

My 2006 came with 4 OEM factory Fob/remote button keys. The two extra keys were worth hundreds of dollars cost avoidance to buy from a dealership. My 2004 came with 2 ea. OEM keys. I'm all set with keys. The purpose of this thread is for someone who only got one key with their used purchase van.

Doing the chip install removes one level of security. Unless you somehow broadcast that your van no longer needs a chipped key, all will assume that your Sprinter needs a chipped key.

That is why I suggested remaining with a plastic handle, OEM appearance key. Just slip the gray chip sleeve which held the OEM chip back into place and continue to use the OEM key. It will look like a chipped key is still needed. "Walk like a duck."

vic
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: Only one ignition key? Nervous?

Hmmm... if you have the RFID chip glued to the bezel, then the Sprinter might fall prey to a significant screwdriver trying to act as a "key".

I once drove a 25' Hertz rental truck that was stolen mid-trip.
The thieves used a slide-hammer to pull the exterior driver's door lock.
They completely smashed the cast metal shell at the top of the steering column.
They removed enough parts to defeat the steering column lock.
The power to the ignition was achieved by twisting together the power leads that came to the (now missing) ignition switch.
The starter was activated by a pushrod that disappeared down the column... pull it up a bit and the starter cranked.

Gary (Indiana) police recovered the truck about 3 hours later ... we had it back 5 hours after that.
Hertz offered to replace the truck, we chose to keep it (rather than unload/reload) and continued to Philadelphia.
We returned the truck to Hertz's main depot/repair yard.
The entire shop crew came out to see/play-with the "how to run, how to start" process.
The depot manager said that they (almost) never recovered stolen trucks in usable condition .... we got our full damage deposit back.

--dick
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: Only one ignition key? Nervous?

Quote:
Originally Posted by autostaretx View Post
Hmmm... if you have the RFID chip glued to the bezel, then the Sprinter might fall prey to a significant screwdriver trying to act as a "key".

I once drove a 25' Hertz rental truck that was stolen mid-trip.
...

--dick
Was that around 1980 prior to ANY vehicle OEM provided chipped RFID technology at all?

That provides good life experience and a life lesson which is still current. Avoid Gary Indiana when on road trips.

There are now stories about thieves who can clone the new keyless vehicle ignition systems as you walk away from the vehicle. There's always risk.

This modification is for a T1N. The newest T1N is 11 years old. Not a particularly ripe target for thieves to steal the entire van. If they destroy the steering column as you describe the insurance company will total the thing anyway.

Walk like a duck. For if you lose your one and only key you will end up walking in one manner or another anyway.

vic

P.S. - I found this paper an interesting read.

SECURITY OF VEHICLE KEY FOBS AND IMMOBILIZERS

http://www.cs.tufts.edu/comp/116/arc...richardson.pdf

A tinfoil hat may actually have dual purpose. For your head, and also as a key fob wrap to increase your vehicle security.

Added:
A strong magnet will likely interfere with the electromagnetic field that initializes the info exchange of the chip. I have no data.
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Old 11-25-2017, 02:20 AM   #10
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Default Re: Only one ignition key? Nervous?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
I guess that I don't really understand your concern.

If someone ends up with your OEM chipped key you lose your entire van too.

Extra chipped keys can be expensive. That is especially true if you lose your one and only key. You then need to start from scratch.

My 2006 came with 4 OEM factory Fob/remote button keys. The two extra keys were worth hundreds of dollars cost avoidance to buy from a dealership. My 2004 came with 2 ea. OEM keys. I'm all set with keys. The purpose of this thread is for someone who only got one key with their used purchase van.

Doing the chip install removes one level of security. Unless you somehow broadcast that your van no longer needs a chipped key, all will assume that your Sprinter needs a chipped key.

That is why I suggested remaining with a plastic handle, OEM appearance key. Just slip the gray chip sleeve which held the OEM chip back into place and continue to use the OEM key. It will look like a chipped key is still needed. "Walk like a duck."

vic
I think you misunderstood me (sorry, have been working on van 12 hours today and am beat and while wrapping things up the dog stole most of my dinner!)

What I was considering (if chip is not magnet sensitive) is to remove chip from key and glue it to a magnet and add something like a smiley face or flower to stealth it and leave it in van. Then just move it near rfid reader to start. Then also if I lost a key, any of my spares would still start van and at the same time add additional security.

Thanks for the links, interesting read.
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