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T1N Database Reference Information, Part Numbers, Recalls, TSBs, and etc.


 
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:03 PM   #1
abittenbinder
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Default Nag1 TECH ALERT

-Has your Sprinter clocked over 80K miles?
-Does your Sprinter see severe "stop and go" service and clocked 50K miles?

If you answered yes to either question-I recommend you perform this additional procedure during your routine ATF fluid/filter change.


**********************
Updated info from Doktor A. Added by AP November 2017.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
...
Unless you have symptoms my recommendation would be to leave things alone. There are possible pitfalls to messing with the conductor plate and cleaning. Even Doktor A backed away from his periodic cleaning recommendation.

If you have no symptoms I would do a TC/pan drain, filter, and refill with proper transmission fluid.

vic
Quote:
Originally Posted by abittenbinder View Post
Yes! Save the cleaning of the speed sensors and electrical board for serious symptoms only.

Doktor A
**************************

-Are you experiencing transmission related malfunction codes and/or symptoms of transmission malfunction despite having proper fluid level?

-Is your dealer recommending a transmission replacement?

If you answer yes to either of the last 2 questions-don't wait. Perform this procedure immediately.

Here's the procedure that has benefited "severe service" delivery fleets and I'm hoping will help group owners avoid needless transmission replacement.

If you answered yes to any of the above questions- I recommend you drop your transmission valve body (or as DC calls it ,"the electro-hydraulic unit"). It's simple to do and I'm recommending dropping it specifically for inspection and cleaning of the 2 circuit board mounted speed sensors.

Here's the procedure-When you have the pan off and the fluid drained (and inspected) and the filter removed-don't throw out the old filter just yet. It's halves can be uncrimped with a channel-lock plier and you can examine the inner filter media for unusual debris and accumulation.

Next -now is a good time to replace your trans elec. connector's socket O-rings since the socket needs to come out for valve body removal. Remove the small heat shield and disconnect the trans. elect connector. Reach into the trans. mounted elec. socket with a 7mm 1/4 drive socket at the end of a short extension-unbolt the retaining bolt and gently pull the socket out of the trans. Have a new socket with o-rings ready for later reassembly-part# is 68021352AA (inexpensive and comes complete with the latest black O-rings).

Now, using the same T-30 Torx bit, you used to remove the pan- loosen all the bolts and remove all but 2 (opposing bolts) holding the valve body in place. Supporting the valve body carefully-remove the last 2 bolts and lower the valve body down and carry it immediately into your surgically clean(?) workshop.

Lay the complete valve body on a clean newspaper- elec side up. Refer to your workshop manual diagrams- the speed sensors are easy to spot(on top) and should be carefully cleaned of accumulated metallic filings(they are strong magnets).

Inspect exposed parts of the circuit board and exterior of the solenoids for heavy accumulation-clean carefully.

If things look really clean- you don't need to go further. Skip down to re-installation.

If there's heavy accumulation of metallic debris you can unbolt(again-the T-30 Torx bit) the solenoid retainers and carefully remove the solenoids. The electrical board can now be unclipped(2 push clips) and separated from the valve body.

Inspect the small filter screens under the 2 regulating solenoids(If you find the screens clogged-I would stop here and seriously consider a transmission overhaul-this is thankfully rare) also inspect the o-rings on the 3 shift solenoids and single TCC lock-up solenoid(yes-part of the RSN gang). The o-rings are NOT avialable as (separate from solenoid) replacement parts from DC but any suspect o-rings can be replaced by visiting the local autoparts store and sorting through their collection of quality viton o-ring drawers.

If the circuit board looks hopelessly contaminated -it is available as a replacement part and is somewhat reasonable in price. It's mostly encased in plastic and cleaning can be tedious.

Reassemble the electro and hyd. portions and follow torque specs(71 in/lbs.) for the solenoid retainers.

Carefully lift the assembled valve body back into the transmission sump and make sure you engage the plastic sliding lever of the selector valve into the detent plate post. Torque the 10 bolts to 71 in./lbs. Install your new connector socket, and your new filter and sump seal. Bolt on the sump and fill as usual (I assume you have also drain the torque converter as per previous post). Photos show-1) The complete valve body. 2)Transmission w/valve body removed. 3)Close-up of speed sensors. 4)Disassembled valve body.5)Close-up of the TCC lock-up solenoid. 2008 Copyright by Doktor A
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg 100_1294.jpg (74.4 KB, 6934 views)
File Type: jpg 100_1296.jpg (58.8 KB, 6928 views)
File Type: jpg 100_1295.jpg (111.6 KB, 6831 views)
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Last edited by Aqua Puttana; 11-08-2017 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Add recent Doktor A comment. AP
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: Nag1 TECH ALERT

Quote:
Originally Posted by abittenbinder View Post

...

If there's heavy accumulation of metallic debris you can unbolt(again-the T-30 Torx bit) the solenoid retainers and carefully remove the solenoids. The electrical board can now be unclipped(2 push clips) and separated from the valve body.

...

If the circuit board looks hopelessly contaminated -it is available as a replacement part and is somewhat reasonable in price. It's mostly encased in plastic and cleaning can be tedious.
Thanks for the excellent write-up, Doktor A.

What is the source of the contamination? Is this entirely T1N-specific, or all Nag1-transmissions?

Would the system benefit from additional filtration, like a by-pass filter on the trans-cooler lines?

-Jon
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Old 01-09-2008, 05:16 AM   #3
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Default Re: Nag1 TECH ALERT

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcaples View Post
Thanks for the excellent write-up, Doktor A.

What is the source of the contamination? Is this entirely T1N-specific, or all Nag1-transmissions?

Would the system benefit from additional filtration, like a by-pass filter on the trans-cooler lines?

-Jon
The contamination we're most concerned with are the minute ferrous filings that can accumulate on and disrupt functioning of -the speed sensors(curiously- one in particular).

These sensors are very strong magnets and protrude directly into the trans housing chamber where all the rotating elements and friction elements are housed. The torque converter with its "lock-up"(slip mode most of the time) clutch are also prime suspects in shedding fine ferrous hairs.

There is a small, weak, magnetized grid "dropped" into the sump but these sensors are unfortunately much more effective in picking up these filings(and not by design).

This is not T1N specific. The NAG1 in the new generation has a V6 specific bellhousing but it's still an NAG1.

Filtration has benefits but also its risks-quality and integrity of plumbing and hardware being the ones I would be most concerned about. Doktor A
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Old 01-10-2008, 01:26 AM   #4
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Default Re: Nag1 TECH ALERT

Quote:
Originally Posted by abittenbinder View Post
The contamination we're most concerned with are the minute ferrous filings that can accumulate on and disrupt functioning of -the speed sensors(curiously- one in particular).
Doktor A
There is also the risk of the metallic filings causing problems on the circuit board connections particularly those of the solenoids. That's why I also recommend inspection and cleaning of the board and the exterior of the solenoids. Doktor A
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Old 01-10-2008, 05:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: Nag1 TECH ALERT

Quote:
Originally Posted by abittenbinder View Post
There is also the risk of the metallic filings causing problems on the circuit board connections particularly those of the solenoids. That's why I also recommend inspection and cleaning of the board and the exterior of the solenoids. Doktor A
I don't know much about transmission parts; I have heard that the fluid becomes contaminated with materials which are worn off. Are all fluid contaminants iron particles, or are some non-ferrous?

If some particles are non-ferrous, does non-ferrous pollution contribute to or accellerate shedding of iron from the rotating and friction elements?

If the fluid were polished using a bypass filter, could this iron contamination effect be retarded - plumbing concerns aside.

-Jon
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Old 01-11-2008, 05:14 AM   #6
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Default Re: Nag1 TECH ALERT

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcaples View Post
I don't know much about transmission parts; I have heard that the fluid becomes contaminated with materials which are worn off. Are all fluid contaminants iron particles, or are some non-ferrous?

If some particles are non-ferrous, does non-ferrous pollution contribute to or accellerate shedding of iron from the rotating and friction elements?

If the fluid were polished using a bypass filter, could this iron contamination effect be retarded - plumbing concerns aside.

-Jon
Since there is no combustion of fuel taking place-contamination of transmission fluid is limited to internal wear of components, and atmospheric moisture( We are assuming, of course, that there are no coolant leaks in the radiator mounted trans cooler and that you have a tight seal on your trans dipstick tube cap).

The internal contamination is both metallic (bearings, gears, and metal surfaces friction materials act against) and non metallic(primarily from friction linings). There may well be metallic constituents of the friction linings as well-I still need to take the time to cut open a tossed torque converter and inspect the torque converter clutch linings and the surface they act against.

Any form of contamination (material) will likely accelerate wear and the shedding of ferrous particles- that's why the transmission employs a filter. Will an auxiliary filter make a significant impact on wear reduction? I guess that's really a question of hardware availability, expense, design criteria(avoiding leaks, pressure drops + preventing catastrophic reduction of flow rates when contaminated)-those kinds of things. Rational fluid and filter change intervals, keeping track of leaks and repairing them, watching fluid level, using the correct spec fluid and responsible driving techniques are the best things you can now be doing to safeguard your investment. Doktor A
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: Nag1 TECH ALERT

[QUOTE=abittenbinder;18330]-Has your Sprinter clocked over 80K miles?
-Does your Sprinter see severe "stop and go" service and clocked 50K miles?

If you answered yes to either question-I recommend you perform this additional procedure during your routine ATF fluid/filter change.

-Are you experiencing transmission related malfunction codes and/or symptoms of transmission malfunction despite having proper fluid level?

-Is your dealer recommending a transmission replacement?

If you answer yes to either of the last 2 questions-don't wait. Perform this procedure immediately.

Here's the procedure that has benefited "severe service" delivery fleets and I'm hoping will help group owners avoid needless transmission replacement.

If you answered yes to any of the above questions- I recommend you drop your transmission valve body (or as DC calls it ,"the electro-hydraulic unit"). It's simple to do and I'm recommending dropping it specifically for inspection and cleaning of the 2 circuit board mounted speed sensors.

Here's the procedure-When you have the pan off and the fluid drained (and inspected) and the filter removed-don't throw out the old filter just yet. It's halves can be uncrimped with a channel-lock plier and you can examine the inner filter media for unusual debris and accumulation.

Next -now is a good time to replace your trans elec. connector's socket O-rings since the socket needs to come out for valve body removal. Remove the small heat shield and disconnect the trans. elect connector. Reach into the trans. mounted elec. socket with a 7mm 1/4 drive socket at the end of a short extension-unbolt the retaining bolt and gently pull the socket out of the trans. Have a new socket with o-rings ready for later reassembly-part# is 68021352AA (inexpensive and comes complete with the latest black O-rings).

Now, using the same T-30 Torx bit, you used to remove the pan- loosen all the bolts and remove all but 2 (opposing bolts) holding the valve body in place. Supporting the valve body carefully-remove the last 2 bolts and lower the valve body down and carry it immediately into your surgically clean(?) workshop.

Lay the complete valve body on a clean newspaper- elec side up. Refer to your workshop manual diagrams- the speed sensors are easy to spot(on top) and should be carefully cleaned of accumulated metallic filings(they are strong magnets).

Inspect exposed parts of the circuit board and exterior of the solenoids for heavy accumulation-clean carefully.

If things look really clean- you don't need to go further. Skip down to re-installation.

If there's heavy accumulation of metallic debris you can unbolt(again-the T-30 Torx bit) the solenoid retainers and carefully remove the solenoids. The electrical board can now be unclipped(2 push clips) and separated from the valve body.

Inspect the small filter screens under the 2 regulating solenoids(If you find the screens clogged-I would stop here and seriously consider a transmission overhaul-this is thankfully rare) also inspect the o-rings on the 3 shift solenoids and single TCC lock-up solenoid(yes-part of the RSN gang). The o-rings are NOT avialable as (separate from solenoid) replacement parts from DC but any suspect o-rings can be replaced by visiting the local autoparts store and sorting through their collection of quality viton o-ring drawers.

If the circuit board looks hopelessly contaminated -it is available as a replacement part and is somewhat reasonable in price. It's mostly encased in plastic and cleaning can be tedious.

Reassemble the electro and hyd. portions and follow torque specs(71 in/lbs.) for the solenoid retainers.

Carefully lift the assembled valve body back into the transmission sump and make sure you engage the plastic sliding lever of the selector valve into the detent plate post. Torque the 10 bolts to 71 in./lbs. Install your new connector socket, and your new filter and sump seal. Bolt on the sump and fill as usual (I assume you have also drain the torque converter as per previous post). Photos show-1) The complete valve body. 2)Transmission w/valve body removed. 3)Close-up of speed sensors. 4)Disassembled valve body.5)Close-up of the TCC lock-up solenoid. 2008 Copyright by Doktor A[/QUOTE

Doctor A

No blah blah blah or BS excellent and best posting I've seen on this forum for a long time thanks.
Already bought the connector socket $12 and was recommended (MB service tech).

Upscale made my first transmission oil and filter change at 55K,now close to 100 000K will execute my next oil and filter change myself,see below why.

<<<<My experience with Upscale !!!!!!

<<<<Simple transmission service,oil and filter change.

<<<<There are 6 transmission oilpan retainers,2 where missing,2 of the remaining retainers where <<<<loose.The 2 rubber bellhousing covers missing (provide exes to Torqe Converter oil drain plug)

<<<<After 3 trips (4hr driving and $30 in diesel) to retrieve all missing
<<<<parts the arrogant """BITCH""" behind the counter told me,"ACT OF GOD"
<<<<not there fault.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:00 AM   #8
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Default Re: Nag1 TECH ALERT

Kurt: could you please name the dealership that gave such poor service. We need to pin point stealership problems as well as vehicle problems.I wander about quite a bit but some areas like south Florida offer many choices. Thanks paul
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Old 01-09-2008, 01:14 AM   #9
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Kurt: could you please name the dealership that gave such poor service. We need to pin point stealership problems as well as vehicle problems.I wander about quite a bit but some areas like south Florida offer many choices. Thanks paul
Sorry Paul but Upscale is not a dealership,a independent autoshop in Portland,Oregon specializing in German cars including Sprinters. Positively and continuously pluging itself on all Sprinter forums.

Happy day to you.

Kurt.
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Old 01-09-2008, 01:45 AM   #10
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Default Re: Nag1 TECH ALERT

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Originally Posted by northener View Post
Kurt: could you please name the dealership that gave such poor service. We need to pin point stealership problems as well as vehicle problems.I wander about quite a bit but some areas like south Florida offer many choices. Thanks paul
To add to your posting I use *****http://www.fivestardealers.com/ronto...th=&bid=&rid=u ****and always got service and courtesy.
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