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Old 05-11-2014, 04:13 AM   #501
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Default Re: Layout plan.

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Originally Posted by GeorgeRa View Post
If I would do this project over again the factory precut/tapped/milled 80/20 and CNC-ed HDPE would be the way to go contrary to the DC powered Microwave which would absolutely not make into my repeats list.

George.
I noticed you have a Magnum 1000w inverter and a small microwave which I assume is along the lines of 600-700w. I have a similar setup in the works. What didn't you like about the DC powered microwave?

I also really like how the 80/20 looks in your cabinet build. The finished product looks nicer than most pro built conversion vans you can buy. The company making it make it sound relatively easy and foolproof to build with it. Is working with 80/20 something the average person can do with simple tools? Iv'e never had much luck cutting metal in my primitive shop. Also wondering how cabinets built this way compare weight wise to traditional plywood & 2x2 cabinets?
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Old 05-11-2014, 06:44 AM   #502
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Default Re: Layout plan.

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Originally Posted by ehallspqr View Post
I noticed you have a Magnum 1000w inverter and a small microwave which I assume is along the lines of 600-700w. I have a similar setup in the works. What didn't you like about the DC powered microwave?

I also really like how the 80/20 looks in your cabinet build. The finished product looks nicer than most pro built conversion vans you can buy. The company making it make it sound relatively easy and foolproof to build with it. Is working with 80/20 something the average person can do with simple tools? Iv'e never had much luck cutting metal in my primitive shop. Also wondering how cabinets built this way compare weight wise to traditional plywood & 2x2 cabinets?
Thank you for the compliment.

I have no problem with microwave. My problem was that to have a DC powered microwave the necessary DC infrastructure is complex and expensive, about $1000 extra. The primary use for the 1000W inverter in my application is microwave, for PC or mobile devices a small 300-500W would suffice. Doing it again I would install 3-4 stage charger such as Xantrex TrueCharge and 300-500W full sine wave inverter. With a different loads requirement my story would change. Simply, building 1000W supply from the batteries can’t be justified in my usage of microwave in off shore power situation, I do have inside mounted alcohol stove.

Regarding 80/20, during the last Sprinter Fest in Tualatin I discussed the plywood versus 80/20 with a person who introduced himself as an owner of the cabinet shop. He stated that to get the same strength of cabinetry work he would need to use ¾” plywood in a mobile application, so:
- 2’x3’ 80/20 1515 frame is 9.36 lbs. which can be filled by 1.8 lbs double wall polycarbonate, 4.7 lbs plywood, or 6.6 lbs HDPE
- 2’x3’ ¾’ plywood weighs 14 lbs.
- To reduce 80/20 weight you can use sometimes none or light weight panels or lighter profile 1” extrusion which is one half weight of 1.5” one.

The benefits for 80/20 are:
- Very strong frame versus strength coming from panels.
- Combination of 80/20 with HDPE requires "0" finishing, for me this was a key point. HDPE can be cut or machined with wood tools such as miter or table saw, forstner drill bits, or router.... HDPE is very often used in the boating industry.

Regarding cutting at home, in my entire project I made just 1 extrusion cut on the miter saw using special blade for nonferrous material at home. All modules I designed on CAD and factory cut them to size. I know it is more expensive but it is still way less expensive than buying Airstream with platinum bolts. There is a learning curve with 8020 materials and fasteners, I would suggest to look at some of their videos. If you are reasonably proficient with CAD - assembly is simple. Cutting and tapping at home is definitely doable in a limited in tools garage but learning curve gets steeper. Hein’s CNC help was significant on this project.

Good luck,

George.

Last edited by GeorgeRa; 05-11-2014 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 05-11-2014, 03:04 PM   #503
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Default Re: Layout plan.

George and I used a different approach to using 80/20. He had all cuts done by 80/20 and mostly used stock 80/20 connectors. I just bought full lengths of the extrusions and cut them to length as I needed in my shop. I also bought aluminum flats and angles and cut short lengths too make the connectors. Either way works. We both used CAD software to design the structures. Cost can be reduced if you make your own connectors.

80/20 is very easy to work with. My background was strictly woodworking. Never worked with aluminum. I found it easier to build stuff out of aluminum than wood. Just as easy to cut, dimensions are accurate and no finish required. Tools required are a wood chop saw (with proper blade), a drill press, a sander for deburring and a hand tapper.

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/sho...2&postcount=18

What is interesting is the number of times as you build that you need to add something. You always have a place to bolt the something to the structure. If you use 80/20 always use elastic stop nuts for bolted connections. I did not and have found some loose bolts even though 80/20 slot design is supposed to be vibration proof.

If you search for 80/20 you will find a lot more information on the subject. I found it to be an ideal method to build a conversion that was in my skill set. There are several manufacturers of identical extrusions. If you can find a local supplier, the cost of shipping long lengths of 80/20 can be reduced.
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Old 05-12-2014, 04:43 AM   #504
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Default Re: Layout plan.

What type of blade are you cutting the 80/20 with? I tried a chop saw with one of those abrasive metal cutting wheels. It worked but there was allot of clean up of the cut area, deburring etc. The cut was not real clean either. And it was loud when cutting with some nasty smelling fumes LOL. I would probably do what George did and just order it pre-cut per my dimensions. I really like the finished cabinets built with 80/20 so I am planning on using it somewhere in my Sprinter build. And it sounds like it is fairly user friendly for us beginners.

I really should invest in a CAD program for my computer. I was a engineer at Boeing for many years. I have no excuses for not using a CAD tool, just laziness to buy and learn the new program. I dug out my old drafting tools from back in the day and have been using those. It's embarrassing but at least I can hand a decent sketch to a fabricator like Hein and he can understand it. I hope to enlist Hein in fabricating all my panels from HDPE. George also put me in touch with a great metal fabricator in Oregon which I have drawings sent to for bids.

I'm glad that your microwave/inverter works well together and it was a matter of added costs that you where referring to. I did a test and hooked up my little iWaveCube microwave to my Magnum 1000w powered by a single Lifeline AGM and it worked perfectly. We don't plan to use our microwave very much for cooking, but it sure would be nice to heat a sandwich/hot drink while on the road or reheat something quick for dinner.

Last edited by ehallspqr; 05-12-2014 at 04:47 AM.
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Old 05-12-2014, 05:04 AM   #505
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Default Re: Layout plan.

I used this blade http://www.amazon.com/Freud-D1296N-1.../dp/B00008WQ39

Before retirement I worked with engineers using CAD, FEE or other sophisticated engineering tools. In the early nineties our prototypes were designed in 3D and prototypes made using 3D printers. During university times I was proficient in drafting but never got into CAD until we built the house in the early nineties. The house was drafted by hand in the architectural firm in Portland. Then I decide to learn CAD and in 2 hours I had a basic grasp of it. Having drafting skills gave me 80% advantage. What we had at work was an overkill so I bought TurboCAD. Since then I use it for every little project. I only work in 2D and found TurboCAD more than sufficient for my needs. An older version of TurboCAD on Amazon you can get for $50. Learning CAD was a great investment for my hobby needs.

George.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:15 AM   #506
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Default Re: Layout plan.

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Originally Posted by Graphite Dave View Post
One neat thing about the Southco latches if you leave a drawer open, you just swerve a bit and it automatically closes. The old pushbutton latches required me to stop and go back to close the drawer.
OK, you must be a Guru, this did happen to me today and I loved it.

George.
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Old 05-12-2014, 02:17 PM   #507
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Default Re: Layout plan.

There is a lot of info on using 80/20. Search "using 80/20".

Saw blade I use that gives smooth burr free cuts:

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/sho...64&postcount=1

I use General Cadd. You can download the complete program for free to play with. The free version does not let you save drawings. Something like $600 for full version. I also have Autocad but find it too difficult to use. General Cadd uses two letter keyboard commands that make it fast and friendly.

George: Self closing drawers is cool. I also smiled the first time it happened.
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Old 05-12-2014, 04:52 PM   #508
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Default Re: Layout plan.

George, Dave thanks for the info on 80/20. I think I see the problem cutting this extrusion. I was too cheap to buy the proper cutting blade. Actually I have a thin cutting wheel not an actual blade. While it does cut aluminum with ease, it doesn't produce a nice clean cut and the result is allot of cleanup of the cut. I priced a couple carbide blades for cutting nonferrous metals. Very pricey but you have to have one when cutting 80/20.

We have a saying in the engineering world "When in doubt, make it stout". This philosophy aside I did check out the various shape profiles from Tslots and 80/20. From a strength perspective, unless your building something that needs to support allot of weight then 1 inch will be plenty strong enough for most cabinet applications. Much lighter weight and I suspect cheaper to buy. Well now to research 80/20 some more and maybe invest in a CAD program for my MAC.
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Old 05-12-2014, 10:47 PM   #509
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Default Re: Layout plan.

We should not be hiJacking George's post. Maybe go to "using 80/20" and post on that?

Problem with 1" is adding panels and connections. 1 1/2" gives more space. I would recommend the lightest 1 1/2" profile.
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:10 AM   #510
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Default Re: Layout plan.

Some progress with OH cabinets. Figured out the process to digitize 2 front and 2 rear OH cabinet HDPE walls for CNC. Will cut from cardboard or thin plywood (have some scrap 3.5 mm) an exact profile. Take a picture of the profile lined with a square with a low distortion lens assuring camera’s plane is parallel to the subject. Import the picture to CAD and scale it. Using Bezier curve fitting trace the profile and digitize the image. Ideas are welcome.
Little complex but should work, I have done it before with straight lines but smooth curves are not as easy. There could be a manual method but to match CNC edge quality for me is almost impossible.

I finished toilet housing design and sent out for 80/20 RFQ.

George.
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