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Old 04-18-2015, 12:13 AM   #11
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Default Re: NCV3 Oil Practical Information - Low SAP 5w-40 vs 0w-30

Very fine dirt can find its way past the rings, just like exhaust soot.
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Old 04-18-2015, 12:34 AM   #12
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Default Re: NCV3 Oil Practical Information - Low SAP 5w-40 vs 0w-30

If that fine, would it not be passing the filter?
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Old 04-18-2015, 03:46 AM   #13
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Default Re: NCV3 Oil Practical Information - Low SAP 5w-40 vs 0w-30

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If that fine, would it not be passing the filter?
I dunno. An oil analysis report lists residual levels of silicon and such in the oil, and high levels can be indicative of filter failure so it seems that particles both above and below typical air filter cutoff size (around 5 microns) have the potential of getting past the rings.
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Old 04-18-2015, 12:43 PM   #14
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Default Re: NCV3 Oil Practical Information - Low SAP 5w-40 vs 0w-30

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I dunno. An oil analysis report lists residual levels of silicon and such in the oil, and high levels can be indicative of filter failure so it seems that particles both above and below typical air filter cutoff size (around 5 microns) have the potential of getting past the rings.
If my memory is correct the result of dirt is silica. Traces of silicon could be from silicon bronze bearings?

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Old 04-18-2015, 01:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: NCV3 Oil Practical Information - Low SAP 5w-40 vs 0w-30

Silicon is just an element that makes up silica and I think that's how it's listed on oil reports. I suppose you could use either term but yeah, silica might be technically more correct.

Anyway, 'dirt'...
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Old 04-18-2015, 02:11 PM   #16
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Default Re: NCV3 Oil Practical Information - Low SAP 5w-40 vs 0w-30

Its also in RTV sealants, gaskets & some anti-freeze. New engines may show a lot of silicone on oil analysis due to the sealants. Still having trouble visualizing how mass quantities of micron size dirt particles squeeze past a set of piston rings....
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Old 04-18-2015, 02:26 PM   #17
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Default Re: NCV3 Oil Practical Information - Low SAP 5w-40 vs 0w-30

Don't confuse silcon with silicone, they are different things.
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Old 04-18-2015, 02:28 PM   #18
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Default Re: NCV3 Oil Practical Information - Low SAP 5w-40 vs 0w-30

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Originally Posted by Old Crows View Post
Its also in RTV sealants, gaskets & some anti-freeze. New engines may show a lot of silicone on oil analysis due to the sealants. Still having trouble visualizing how mass quantities of micron size dirt particles squeeze past a set of piston rings....
All piston rings have end gaps. The rings in the ring groove act as a spring against the cylinder wall. The gap is needed to allow for expansion and contraction of parts during the heat of operation. Even though the ring end openings are staggered to avoid a straight path, there is always a bit of blow-by even with good rings and cylinder walls. That blow-by can carry the fine particles with it.

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Don't confuse silcon with silicone, they are different things.
That is true. Except they may show similarly in tests after going through the combustion process?
Added: Wait. All silicone wouldn't come from the cylinders. Much would leach in with oil contact.... nevermind.

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Old 04-18-2015, 02:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: NCV3 Oil Practical Information - Low SAP 5w-40 vs 0w-30

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That is true. Except they may show similarly in tests after going through the combustion process?
Yes, good point and apparently so. Following is the meaning of the 'silicon' reading in a Blackstone report:

Silicon: Airborne dirt, sealers, gaskets, sand-casted parts, spray lubricants, antifreeze inhibitor.
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Old 04-18-2015, 03:48 PM   #20
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Default Re: NCV3 Oil Practical Information - Low SAP 5w-40 vs 0w-30

If we look at the intake system on all modern vehicles, it starts with an airbox with a paper filter that is trimmed with a rubber gasket. The air passes through this filter and is drawn out of the box through snorkel piping past various sensors and sometimes a turbo/intercooler (and for gassers a throttlebody) into a plenum that feeds air into each cylinder.

Each one of these parts between the airbox and the cylinder head (turbo/IC notwithstanding) is usually made from fiber-reinforced high-temp plastic or regular ABS plastic. Each junction has either an interference/friction fit or rubber/silicone gaskets, and makes use of spring or hose clamps or bolts, screws or snaps to keep the parts together.

This is where the potential problem lies. The intake system is usually designed well enough not to have a part slip off in normal use, but when vehicles get serviced either by techs or owners, there's a risk that a removed part doesn't get reinstalled carefully, or somebody with a screwdriver goes nuts on a hose clamp and overtightens the poor thing until the joint collapses, creating an open gap that allows unfiltered air to be drawn in.

Because most techs (Mercedes included) are expected to work for peanuts while the service advisor and dealership owner rake in the big bucks, there is incentive for technicians to take as many shortcuts as possible so that they can earn enough to feed their families (the S.A. and dealership owner are fully complicit in this exploitation). So if a tech needs to change something like a glow plug, injector or leaking valve cover gasket, and their instructions say that some intake-related parts should be removed, but the tech has small or flexible enough hands, then they very often will wing it and get the job done by just loosening a few bits and pushing the offending parts enough out of the way to gain access. Sometimes this can break the plastic parts or pulls them enough out of alignment to cause a junction to come loose, and if the tech and owner don't notice, then the vehicle goes back on the road with a leak in the intake system that otherwise doesn't cause any noticeable running problems.

When we drive our vehicles past construction sites or agricultural land, or behind other vehicles that kick up dirt and debris with their tires, this particulate matter has the potential to be drawn into the engine. If the filter is in place, then it should do a good job filtering the larger particles, but if there is a leak (as described above), then the abrasive particles make their way into the cylinders.

Once they're in the cylinders, most particles gets blown out the exhaust harmlessly, but some of the particles get stuck in the oil on the cylinder walls and get washed into the oil supply, and some of the particles join the blowby gases that slip past the rings into the crankcase. By then, the particles are in the oil, and its a question of filter efficiency how long they circulate doing damage. If the particles are small enough to not ever be picked up by the oil filter but are very numerous, then they can still cause wear on bearings and metal surfaces by their cumulative (stacked) diameters. When this happens, the only remedy is to replace the oil.

This is enough of a potential issue that whenever an oil analysis indicates an irregular spike in wear metals, the very first thing that the lab technician looks at as a culprit is silicates and insolubles. If either of these appear high, then the default recommendation is ALWAYS "check for intake leaks" and also immediately change the oil and filter if it hasn't been done yet, even if the oil otherwise checks out ok. Its also the reason why most owners manuals from different brands say that when a vehicle is frequently used in extremely dusty conditions, then it qualifies as 'severe service' and shorter oil/air filter and oil change intervals should be used.
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