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Old 08-09-2019, 12:06 AM   #751
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Default Re: T21 Emissions Recall Notice

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Originally Posted by marklg View Post
GDE got fined $50k by California for tampering with emissions.


Regards,

Mark

Ah. I wondered why their tune costs as much as it does.


To uneducated me, much of the emissions stuff for diesels seems like nonsense. I'm curious if CA emissions authorities did a test to see how the stock tune compares to the GDE in terms of emissions per gallon. If it's the same, wouldn't the system with better fuel economy be better for the environment (as less fossil fuel is being used/processed/transported.)? I've wondered the same thing about the whole Volkswagen debacle. I can't imagine the emissions from GDE tune (or Volkswagons) exceeds the improvement in fuel economy.
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Old 08-09-2019, 01:26 AM   #752
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Default Re: T21 Emissions Recall Notice

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Ah. I wondered why their tune costs as much as it does.


To uneducated me, much of the emissions stuff for diesels seems like nonsense. I'm curious if CA emissions authorities did a test to see how the stock tune compares to the GDE in terms of emissions per gallon. If it's the same, wouldn't the system with better fuel economy be better for the environment (as less fossil fuel is being used/processed/transported.)? I've wondered the same thing about the whole Volkswagen debacle. I can't imagine the emissions from GDE tune (or Volkswagons) exceeds the improvement in fuel economy.
The way these things work is the regulators consider any change to be, by definition, non compliant. You as the manufacturer are responsible, at your expense, to prove it meets the standards. That involves a lot of testing, way too expensive for a small company. Someone posted a link to the California emissions rules and regulations. I can't find the posting now. It's an absurd amount of stuff to meet.

Regards,

Mark
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Old 08-09-2019, 07:14 PM   #753
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Default Re: T21 Emissions Recall Notice

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Originally Posted by ions82 View Post
To uneducated me, much of the emissions stuff for diesels seems like nonsense. I'm curious if CA emissions authorities did a test to see how the stock tune compares to the GDE in terms of emissions per gallon. If it's the same, wouldn't the system with better fuel economy be better for the environment (as less fossil fuel is being used/processed/transported.)? I've wondered the same thing about the whole Volkswagen debacle. I can't imagine the emissions from GDE tune (or Volkswagons) exceeds the improvement in fuel economy.
Both the much-maligned DEF and EGR systems are to prevent/remove nitrous oxide (NOx) molecules from the exhaust stream. A prime component of "photochemical smog".
NOx is primarily generated by "burning lean" (high combustion temperatures).

"Better fuel economy" doesn't factor into it. (in fact, many "improved fuel economy" gadgets do drift towards a leaner mixture).

Gasoline engines have throttle plates which restrict the airflow, thus mostly avoiding the "lean burn" situation. The T1N diesels don't have throttle plates, so the EGR is "it" in terms of trying to avoid leaning out. The exhaust that's being recirculated is oxygen-depleted, so it doesn't support NOx production.

--dick
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Last edited by autostaretx; 08-09-2019 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 08-11-2019, 10:18 AM   #754
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Default Re: T21 Emissions Recall Notice

So, I decided to do my own T21 recall. The service departments at the Dodge dealerships here in Albuquerque are worthless. I bought a cluster from an '06 on fleaBay. My friend has a C3 programmer that we plan to use. The only "programming" the cluster needs is the entry of current mileage, right? I assume it doesn't need to be "paired" like some of the other electrical components. Hopefully, it will fix my battery drain and turn off that pesky CEL. The plan is to add cruise control and remove the FedEx speed limiter (62 mph) while we're at it.

Are there any pitfalls I should watch out for while swapping the cluster?
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Old 08-11-2019, 05:24 PM   #755
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Default Re: T21 Emissions Recall Notice

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Are there any pitfalls I should watch out for while swapping the cluster?

You're treading on a new frontier. I don't think any DIY has done this, except maybe Sprinter Techs that have gone through the recall process and I don't think they read everything here.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:58 PM   #756
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Default Re: T21 Emissions Recall Notice

I took my 2006 sprinter in for the recall , I’ve had a few incidents after getting it done, and I don’t know if there connected. 1. Windows failing if left half way down both side will not roll up. 2. Last night I got home and The key would not disengage after put in park, and then proceed to go back into drive and reshift to park then I was able to turn off engine and remove key. Anyone think these issues are related , it seem to be coming from under the driver seat, where I think the work on the recall done, To get the windows to work I pulled the number 4 fuse and put it back in. And the windows work work again.

Last edited by Oroskenneth; 08-12-2019 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:19 PM   #757
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Default Re: T21 Emissions Recall Notice

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So, I decided to do my own T21 recall. The service departments at the Dodge dealerships here in Albuquerque are worthless. I bought a cluster from an '06 on fleaBay. My friend has a C3 programmer that we plan to use. The only "programming" the cluster needs is the entry of current mileage, right? I assume it doesn't need to be "paired" like some of the other electrical components. Hopefully, it will fix my battery drain and turn off that pesky CEL. The plan is to add cruise control and remove the FedEx speed limiter (62 mph) while we're at it.

Are there any pitfalls I should watch out for while swapping the cluster?
I found the recall instructions here:

https://f01.justanswer.com/jhook1398...1055469_10.pdf

How will you get the Firmware for the ECU? The instructions say to go to the DealerCONNECT website and need a User ID, Password and Dealer Code, then you have to enter the VIN to get the firmware file. Or, did I miss something and the ECU has already been reprogrammed?

I'm not sure there is any programming of the Cluster, just swapping in a new one. I'm not sure where the mileage is stored or if there is any mating.

Regards,

Mark
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:26 PM   #758
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Default Re: T21 Emissions Recall Notice

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I took my 2006 sprinter in for the recall , Iíve had a few incidents after getting it done, and I donít know if there connected. 1. Windows failing if left half way down both side will not roll up. 2. Last night I got home and The key would not disengage after put in park, and then proceed to go back into drive and reshift to park then I was able to turn off engine and remove key. Anyone think these issues are related , it seem to be coming from under the driver seat, where I think the work on the recall done, To get the windows to work I pulled the number 4 fuse and put it back in. And the windows work work again.
See my previous post for a link to the recall instructions. They only connect to the ODB2 port. I don't see anything they do under the driver's seat. Your issues sure seem like an electrical problem though. Do you have a Sprinter specific scanner to look for codes?

See my post #90 here:

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...t=70872&page=9

I suppose it is possible that the issue with shifting and key removal could be due to codes stored in the Transmission or Selector that are generated when the recall is done. The instructions do not say to clear the codes in all of the other modules. I did that myself with the AP200.

Regards,

Mark
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:15 PM   #759
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Default Re: T21 Emissions Recall Notice

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Originally Posted by Oroskenneth View Post
Iím at Folsom Lake Dodge getting it done right now. Iím in the waiting room very professional, Iíll keep you posted. Free Starbucks Coffee, life is great
Any final conclusions on the Folsom Lake Dodge recall experience? Were they any help in addressing the subsequent electrical issues?
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Old 08-24-2019, 01:13 AM   #760
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Default Re: T21 Emissions Recall Notice

We took our 07 Navion to Cole Dodge in SLO, about a four hour drive from the SF peninsula and turned it into an enjoyable camping trip. Hilltop Dodge in Richmond was much closer, but they said it might have to be kept overnight. We decided that two round trips to Richmond wasn't in the cards.

We took it in at 7:45 on Monday and it was ready to go around 11 am. The tech, AJ, found transmission fluid wicking up the cable to the TCM, even though the connector sleeve was changed years ago for one with the new o-rings. The labor cost was reasonable, so I decided to have them fix it instead of driving home and doing it myself.

AJ has worked at the dealership ever since Dodge started selling Sprinters and he seems to be very knowledgeable. He and I discussed other possible issues and he mentioned that the serpentine belt was walking slightly on one of the pulleys. I'll inspect this myself and change the idler pulleys if required.

The dog friendly waiting area is huge with a TV on one side of a wall and magazines on the other. There's also a computer room and a kids play room. Coffee and bottled water are free and there's also a small bakery next door with pastries and any type of coffee you desire.

We stayed for two nights at El Chorro campground, a SLO county park with full hookups that's close to HWY 1. It's about a 15 min. drive from there to the dealership. The park also has a dog play area, a 9 hole golf course and a small restaurant.
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