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Old 10-08-2018, 04:00 PM   #31
PadiKEL5
 
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Default Re: Click no start- some tips.

The diagnostic that Eric Experience provided for the "click no start" problem has been a great tool, however I get stuck when diagnosing the starter relay. When I energize the system with key on, dash lights on, I can feel the fuel pump relay click. Can't feel anything in the starter relay. Pulled the starter relay. Pin 30 which should have 12 volts has .4 . Pin 87 has 0 volts. Conflicting info in the later post that pin 30 doesn't have voltage until the key is turned to energize the starter has me confused and wondering if the problem is in my ignition switch not delivering voltage when "on". Quite honestly, I'm concerned about frying the ecu testing these voltages, like the 85 and 86, plugging each end of the VOM into each slot and turning the key. Didn't check them yet because I didn't have 12 volts at pin 30.

Last edited by PadiKEL5; 10-08-2018 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 10-25-2018, 03:11 PM   #32
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Default Re: Click no start- some tips.

For T1N Intermittent Crank Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
The chip and SKREEM are not affected by an ignition switch contact assembly replacement.

Not that you asked...

I would add a semi permanent test light to the Violet wire off the ignition switch. It is likely fairly easily available on the 87 terminal of the Start Relay. (Pull the relay out slightly and clip to the slide contact, or pull the relay, wrap a thin wire around the spade lug, re-install to just trap a thin tap wire in there.) Any longer tap wires used should be fused. Short(er) wires present less problems because the OEM fuse will be good enough for short circuit protection.

That light will verify 2 important things. It will monitor the 12+ out of the ignition switch and will be a pretty good indicator that the Start Request/enable is getting to the ECM. It will not 100% verify a ECM connector pin issue, or Splice S219 problem though. Note: The ECM triggers/enables the Start Relay by switching the negative.

vic

Edit:
I added the test light to the 8w-20-06 diagram post #6 above.

And some interpretation of the 8w-20-06 Schematic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Since the older copy that you presented, I've added to my 8w-20-06 schematic notes.

Attachment 102738

Someone reminded me that the ignition switch can stop the start operation by simply turning the key back off.

The ignition switch power requests a start aka enables the ECM (ECU). The start sequence is ultimately controlled by the ECM. If the ECM isn't happy with pre-start checks there will be no Start Relay activation. ("HAL. I would like to start the engine please.")

The 12+ volt power from the ignition switch directly powers the starter solenoid (subject to the start relay) and also powers pin #38 (36?) or #20 which signals the ECM that you want to start the engine.

The Pin #38 (36?) or #20 being labelled "Ignition Switch Output (Start)" could be confusing in that it might be interpreted that the 12+ volt power emits out of the ECM. The Ignition Switch Output actually provides power in to that ECM pin for an enable.

vic
8w-20-06StartFuelRelaywNotes3.jpg

8w-10-13IgnitionSwitchwNotes01.jpg

From a recent thread. Test lights were added.

Occasional No Start - But always starts on 2nd Attempt
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...934#post759934

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
I'll start with this first so it doesn't get lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncos View Post
Maybe related?: My "key lock" function does not work (see page 21-168 of service manual). I can remove the key without putting the vehicle in park.
I can't say whether it is related or not. It could, might be a related symptom. It may be worth correcting that in case it is related. I believe that the basic interlock is a cable operation. If the condition is repeatable enough, you might try moving the shift lever to Neutral for all of starting operations. If the problem doesn't present, then the key retention feature/adjustment *may* be related. That said, moving or adding test lights as I describe further on should avoid repairing the key related mechanical problem [unnecessarily, for the present problem anyway].

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncos View Post
So I added two test lights, as recommended. For a week or two, the symptoms never presented which led me to think installing the test lights was enough to seat an improperly seated test relay.
The test lights should help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncos View Post
BUT...it has now resurfaced: The test light connected to the start relay coil is always lit when it should be.
S108 is getting power as it should to feed the Start Relay and Fuel Pump Relay when the Ignition Switch is in Position 2 or 3.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ncos View Post
When the no-start-no-crank occurs, the test light attached to pin 87 of start relay does NOT light. Is this enough to indict the ignition switch such that I should go ahead and replace it, or is there something else I should look into?

Without S219 getting power, the ECM aka ECU won't get the Start Enable signal. Or maybe the ECM does get the signal, but not to where your test light is connected. It could be possible that S219 is a problem.

Moving, or adding a test light to the FB#1 C3-3 12 VT wire should answer the S219 possibility.

Answer for orange highlight above.
Not necessarily. The 12 VT Violet wire is fed by the ignition switch 14 BK/YL through the FB#1. IN = FB#1 C2-2. OUT = FB#1 C3-3. The next move for me would be to put a test light on the BK/YL wire. That should narrow it down to either the Ignition Switch, or something related to the FB#1 circuit, not necessarily the FB#1 proper though. The 14 BK/YL wire is likely only available to you at the Ignition Switch proper.

Attachment 110838 - [Refer to above schematics]

Attachment 110839 - [Refer to above schematics]

vic
NoStartChecks.jpg
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:20 PM   #33
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Default Re: Click no start- some tips.

I noticed that there are 2 ea. Ignition Switch 12 volt supplies needed to activate the Start Relay and Starter. For No Crank symptoms it is necessary to add 2 ea. test lights to help to check whether the ignition switch may be the problem.

To power the Fuel Pump Relay the Ignition Switch 12 volts from the S108 splice remains powered after starting. The Start Relay and the Fuel Pump Relay power share the circuit, and therefore the fuse which feeds S108.

8w-20-06StartFuelRelaywNotes3.jpg

8w-30-18StartFuelRelaywNotes.jpg

vic

Added:
And some info from another thread. (It may be a duplication.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by autostaretx View Post
... but you'll see on the diagram that the solenoid has two coils: a "pull-in", and a "hold" ...
...
--dick
Since the older copy that you presented, I've added to my 8w-20-06 schematic notes.

Attachment 102737

Someone reminded me that the ignition switch can stop the start operation by simply turning the key back off.

The ignition switch power requests a start aka enables the ECM (ECU). The start sequence is ultimately controlled by the ECM. If the ECM isn't happy with pre-start checks there will be no Start Relay activation. ("HAL. I would like to start the engine please.")

The 12+ volt power from the ignition switch directly powers the starter solenoid (subject to the start relay) and also powers pin #38 (36?) or #20 which signals the ECM that you want to start the engine.

The Pin #38 (36?) or #20 being labelled "Ignition Switch Output (Start)" could be confusing in that it might be interpreted that the 12+ volt power emits out of the ECM. The Ignition Switch Output actually provides power in to that ECM pin for an enable.

vic

NoStartChecks.jpg

NoStartDiagnosis.png
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Last edited by Aqua Puttana; 01-04-2019 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 03-20-2019, 05:30 PM   #34
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Default Re: Click no start- some tips.

Dear members, I can't figure out how to start my 2012 Mercedes-Benz sprinter 2500 3.0l even after many many hours of web surfing and labor. I hope someone who's reading now can help.
My van's engine shutdown while I was driving it, seemed like key was turned off but all the gages and lights was working fine. The message check dpf was on the dash board so I suspected that this could be the reason for ECU to set interminent no start condition.



First diagnostic test showed multiple faults related to SCR unit, i said to myself this is the moment, and I did first stage tune with all of the benefits for the engine attached to it. I cutted the particular filter out, replaced fuel filter, cam and crank position sensors, inspected wiring harnesses, fuses all get power except those for SCR unit, changed rellays with place..
Miracle did not happen, van still does not crank, fuel pump and starter short ground.

My question is : what am I doing wrong, what can my problem be caused by and does anyone from Chicago area can help? (had bad experiences with MB dealers in the past don't want to be disappointed with them again)




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Old 07-19-2019, 12:25 AM   #35
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Default Re: Click no start- some tips.

I tried the Eric Jumper Method, carefully following the directions, but with no success. The vehicle in question is a 2006 T1N with 270,000 miles on it. I returned from a three hour trip and shut the vehicle down. I attempted to restart it about an hour later and it would not start. It made some clicking but no start and a fan was coming on, it sounded like the radiator fan, but we had just driven three hours nonstop on the highway. I pulled the battery and charged it to capacity a few times just to be sure, reinstalled the battery, and attempted to start the vehicle. There was plenty of clicking, but no fan at this time. Sadly I did not get it to turn over or start.
Any ideas? I live in Dayton Ohio. Are there any good shops within an hour or so of here that anybody knows about? I donít want to give up on this vehicle, but I need something that runs.
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:21 PM   #36
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Default Re: Click no start- some tips.

I had my sprinter flat bedded to a dealer with the same issue. Turns out it was a bad ground. Problem solved with minimal expense
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:01 AM   #37
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Default Re: Click no start- some tips.

New to forum a month ago when I had my first "NO START, NO CRANK" situation with 2008 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago VIew. Tried many things. Found that ground pin on ECM relay was not showing grounded. If you pinched the box van would start and run for a short period. Took to MB dealer to check fuse box and replace. 2 + weeks later I have a new CDI and a $2200 bill.

Is there a way to test the CDI they replaced to see if it was truly faulty? I would love to test if possible.
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:56 AM   #38
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Default Re: Click no start- some tips.

Did you get the old one back ?
Usually they are core exchange.
If its in your possession send it to SOS Diagnostics for test and and overview.
Dennis
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