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Old 02-24-2020, 12:34 AM   #11
koenb
 
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Default Re: Heated Rear Window Wiring Adaption

Some pics at night.

#1 Standard reverse lights w/ brake light on
#2 Aux lights only
#3 Alternate view
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Old 02-24-2020, 01:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: Heated Rear Window Wiring Adaption

We tapped into the rear door contacts on our solar van to run a small fan that's vented through your back door. The fan only works with the door shut, and sometimes the contacts aren't perfect the first time you close but it overall works really well was a pretty trivial task.
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Old 02-24-2020, 04:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: Heated Rear Window Wiring Adaption

Does your van have a security module (not the SKREEM, but akin to the motion-detecting interior alarm).

The rear window traces are how it detects an entry attempt through that glass.
That might explain why you have the wiring, if not the windows.

I see that the Window Defogger Module also has two ways of wiring a couple of the pins, depending upon whether or not there are defogger relays in the circuit:

RearWindowDefogModule.png

--dick
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2005 T1N 118" Freightliner 2500 Passenger Wagon (2.7L, 15" tires, standard (short) roof)
Get YOUR Sprinter's full configuration datacard by entering your VIN to https://www.datamb.com/
http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference <-- lots of service documentation, Thanks to Jens Moller and Arnie_Oli
((as always: this post may go through a couple of post-posting edits... so maybe give it ten minutes before commenting))
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Old 02-25-2020, 12:09 AM   #14
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Default Re: Heated Rear Window Wiring Adaption

That's a slick idea with a solar powered vent fan, easy to utilize the unused contact plate.

Dick, as far as I know my van does not have the interior alarm system. The wiring also stopped at the frame side center contact plate. I had to remove the 2 button door side contact, no center, and install three button contacts. Not sure if the window trace wiring would go back through the contact switches?

Any idea where this module might live? I believe I found 2 of the relays under the driver seat.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:56 AM   #15
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Default Re: Heated Rear Window Wiring Adaption

Quote:
Originally Posted by koenb View Post
That's a slick idea with a solar powered vent fan, easy to utilize the unused contact plate.

Dick, as far as I know my van does not have the interior alarm system. The wiring also stopped at the frame side center contact plate. I had to remove the 2 button door side contact, no center, and install three button contacts. Not sure if the window trace wiring would go back through the contact switches?
Yes, the window heater wiring goes through the contact buttons, and the alarm system just checks that there's a path to "ground" from the lead that normally feeds power to the traces.
Quote:
Any idea where this module might live? I believe I found 2 of the relays under the driver seat.
Here's what the component locator chart says about that (page 8w-91-9 in the 2006 service manual):
Window Defogger Module - Rear ... color: BK ... location: Rear Of Vehicle (not shown in diagrams)
Window Defogger Relay-Left Rear (Relay Block) ... color: BK... location: Under Driver Seat ... not shown in sect 8w-91 drawings
Window Defogger Relay-Right Rear (Relay Block) ... color: BK... location: Under Driver Seat ... not shown in sect 8w-91 drawings
Window Defogger Switch - Rear ... color: BK... location: Instrument Panel Fig 25

So: "rear of vehicle" could be in the D-pillar (i'll chase down Splice and Connector locations)
((watch this space))
The splices (S310, S331) and ground (G202, for the rear heaters) are all located under the driver's seat.

Reading pages 8G-1 and -2, i can't but believe that the module would be under the driver's seat, since all it's doing is serving between the dash switch and the relays.

whoops: (what the heck is the EBL?)((do i recall you mentioning a time-out?))
Quote:
Originally Posted by ServiceManual pg 8G-2
The electric backlight (EBL) system is controlled by the EBL timing circuity, which is integral to the rear window defogger module. A yellow indicator in the switch will illuminate to indicate when the EBL system is turned on.
NOTE: The EBL system turns off automatically after approximately 10 minutes of initial operation. Each following activation cycle of the EBL system will last approximately five minutes.
The EBL system will be automatically turned off after a programmed time interval of about ten minutes.
After the initial time interval has expired, if the rear window defogger switch is pressed to the On position again during the same ignition cycle, the EBL system will automatically turn off after about five minutes.
The EBL system will automatically shut off if the ignition switch is turned to the Off position, or it can be turned off manually by pressing the defogger switch a second time.
((in glass-worker-speak, a "light" is a synonym for "window"))
EBL could simply mean "electrically heated rear window"

It then natters on for a few pages listing diagnostic steps
(service manual: http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/2006-VA-SM.pdf )
... but nowhere do they even give a hint as to where the module is

--dick
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2005 T1N 118" Freightliner 2500 Passenger Wagon (2.7L, 15" tires, standard (short) roof)
Get YOUR Sprinter's full configuration datacard by entering your VIN to https://www.datamb.com/
http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference <-- lots of service documentation, Thanks to Jens Moller and Arnie_Oli
((as always: this post may go through a couple of post-posting edits... so maybe give it ten minutes before commenting))

Last edited by autostaretx; 02-25-2020 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 02-26-2020, 12:35 AM   #16
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Default Re: Heated Rear Window Wiring Adaption

Thanks for the response Dick, I also looked at the component locator charts and saw the "not shown in diagram" and thought well that's useless.

Also, from the same 8G section "The rear window defogger system, also known as the electric backlight (EBL)," so you are right that the EBL is the rear window defog.

As far as the timing circuit is concerned, I mentioned earlier that I thought it might come into play. Basically the module now thinks there are heating elements drawing current, albeit a very low current in comparison, but the module is none the wiser. I haven't run the lights for an extended period of time yet, but I suspect they will time out at ten minutes. I could probably spend a bunch of time and energy figuring out a way to bypass the module and use the switch to trigger the relays, but I can't forsee ever needing these lights on for extended periods of more than 5 minutes.

Also from 8G - "The EBL system will automatically shut off if the ignition switch is turned to the Off position, or it can be turned off manually by pressing the defogger switch a second time."
This explains why the switch i'm using requires cycling to trigger the lights off, which I believe can be resolved by using a momentary switch. Do you know if the OEM switches can be turned into momentary types by removing the plastic ridge under the cover? I saw a note about that in the switch table PDF.
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Old 02-26-2020, 06:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: Heated Rear Window Wiring Adaption

Quote:
Originally Posted by koenb View Post
Also from 8G - "The EBL system will automatically shut off if the ignition switch is turned to the Off position, or it can be turned off manually by pressing the defogger switch a second time."
This explains why the switch i'm using requires cycling to trigger the lights off, which I believe can be resolved by using a momentary switch. Do you know if the OEM switches can be turned into momentary types by removing the plastic ridge under the cover? I saw a note about that in the switch table PDF.
I just grabbed the switch table linked by koenb, but i certainly don't see a physical modification note.
(i'm certainly not against such an attempt ... i've torn into similar switches (especially when they fail) for forensic evaluation)
There's also this switch table: (less "hacker" informative than koenb's) switches-by-partnumber.pdf

So i have no direct (nor indirect) knowledge if it's possible. Please tell us if it is.

The T1N seems to "enjoy" using momentary switches for many accessories ... and momentary kind'a dictates that there's an intervening "module" to stretch momentary to "stays on for a while" (or until the ignition is switched off, which then resets it to Off).
The module may even be handy, in that it helps you avoid forgetting to turn off the lights.
Conversely, it does get in the way if you want the lights on with the engine off.

If it were me, i'd probably put a bit of effort into acquiring "real" non-momentary switches (which may require something like the cargo floor fan switch ... it's a non-momentary SPDT-center off switch) ((ok ... ok ... truth be told i wouldn't obsess with "match the original" and i'd choose something that fits into the space available, through the cover plastic))(((but not a bare bat-handle (i do have some taste))))

--dick
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2005 T1N 118" Freightliner 2500 Passenger Wagon (2.7L, 15" tires, standard (short) roof)
Get YOUR Sprinter's full configuration datacard by entering your VIN to https://www.datamb.com/
http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference <-- lots of service documentation, Thanks to Jens Moller and Arnie_Oli
((as always: this post may go through a couple of post-posting edits... so maybe give it ten minutes before commenting))
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koenb (03-01-2020)
Old 02-27-2020, 02:54 AM   #18
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Default Re: Heated Rear Window Wiring Adaption [ Reverse lights ]

At the bottom of the second page of the PDF file, the last note written mentions the plastic ridges. That's all I have to work from so far. I will evaluate this weekend and see if that looks probable.

I'm with you on not obsessing over oem switch look, but in this case it works best because there is no wiring changes needed. Also means using one of the two dash switch cutouts. I have no issue modifying my center console switch panel, but hesitate with modding the dash panel. I am looking into finding a cargo lamp switch if this doesn't pan out with the fog light switch.

I can see no real negative to keeping the module and will let the sleeping dog lie. The only real tweak to the factory wiring will be adding a proper rated fuse for the lights. The only annoying part is as you said, the lights don't work unless the engine is running. For reverse lights its no big deal, the engine will be running if i'm backing into a spot. Also I guess I can use them when people are tailgating me kidding....
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File Type: pdf Sprinter_Switch_Table.pdf (704.0 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by koenb; 02-27-2020 at 02:57 AM.
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Old 03-01-2020, 09:23 PM   #19
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Default Re: Heated Rear Window Wiring Adaption [ Reverse lights ]

I was able to disassemble the fog light switch modify it to a momentary condition. The plastic switch cover pops off easily with light prying action near the center pivot point. From there the switch still has a locking function (non-momentary). I decided to slide the internals out of the body.
This part requires a lot of patience and finesse. I used a tip of a paintbrush (small diameter) to slightly wedge the body in order to slide some shims over the plastic retaining latches. I used feeler gauges for shims. First side is easier than the second due to the stress on the body. I ended up having to wedge it, then use a small flat blade screwdriver and gently push down on the latches to get the shims in. From there, I lightly pried the top actuation part (grey plastic) from the pivot points and then inserted shims again. I then pushed down on the on the upper actuator part and got the internals to start sliding down out the bottom. At a certain point the actuator doesn't slide any further and required grabbing from the bottom with a needle nose pliers to get it the rest of the way.

Now be ready to catch 2 small springs and 2 small ball bearings.


The actuator is held into a non-momentary position by the springs and bearings "locking" into the holes on the legs of the actuator. I removed these from the equation and this makes it a momentary switch. The spring on the contact arm provides enough force to rebound the actuator. See the linked youtube video for operation. There are two sides that have the spring and bearing. In the video I have them in one side, but not the other, you can see the hole they belong in and the two holes on the grey actuator.

https://youtu.be/hqGKm6MRpkI

On the opposing side , the cutouts look identical and would have another arm to actuate if this were a DPDT switch.

I reassembled the switch making sure the internals pin numbers match the body numbers, but without the springs and bearings. First I put the actuator in from the top and locked it into the pivots, then installed shims in the bottom like before and slide the internals into the body. Pull the shims and make sure the plastic latches grabbed. Now it works like a momentary switch. I put the cap on, and no more momentary action....

Figured out the small tab slightly off center on one side catches the actuator and makes it non-momentary. I used and x-acto knife to carefully slice this tab off. Reinstalled the cap and boom, momentary action once again. I installed this into the dash panel, but there was some friction against the cutout making it stick. A quick bit of filing in the center near the pivots made that better.

Connected my now momentary switch back into the wiring harness, started the van and now the lights are triggered on and off with one switch selection. Sometimes if the switch is depressed slowly it won't return, pressing it quickly it always returns

I also tested out the time out of the lights. They turned off after around 14-15mins.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Removing Cap.jpg (99.9 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg Upper Shimmed.jpg (101.6 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg Body Shimmed.jpg (87.3 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg Removing Internals.jpg (126.0 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg Contact Closed.jpg (95.3 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by koenb; 03-01-2020 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 03-01-2020, 09:24 PM   #20
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Default Re: Heated Rear Window Wiring Adaption [ Reverse lights ]

More pics

Video reassembled - https://youtu.be/dgq-6MDofVU
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Contact Open.jpg (99.0 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg Cap.jpg (60.5 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg Tab Removed.jpg (82.2 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg Opposing Side,.jpg (78.7 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg Hole Modified.jpg (125.8 KB, 9 views)

Last edited by koenb; 03-01-2020 at 09:26 PM.
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