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Old 07-31-2018, 08:51 AM   #1
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Default 170ext land yacht

Welp, it arrived. Its been a month and I've got 2 roof fans in and realistically 80% of the insulation done.

Fans were stressful as all hell, but not rocket science, the adapters from Hein saved A LOT of time and a mess of built up butyl tape or comparable material.

Insulation... I'm sure I did it wrong in some peoples opinion but its what I thought would be the best solution for the result I'm looking for... and that's temperature retention/reflection. 2" rigid R-Tech with Rockwool in the cavities/holes where rigid foam wouldn't work. I used 3M 90 to hold the panels up and have begun the spray foam process. going with the door/window rattle cans with the hopes that since it cures with a little "give" to it, the vibration and such won't end up cracking it loose to rattle later... time and miles will tell.

The ultimate goal is to have this be my tiny home, who knows if I'll even like it but won't know until I try. With that here is what I "need" permanent bed, heat, water, kitchen w/fridge, hanging closet (work clothes requirement).

I'm at a sticking point with my planning and would love some input as I've done hours of research and it has only added to my uncertainty... I really, like really want hot water. will I die if I don't have it? No, but let's be honest it would be great.

So, in my opinion, I see 2 options, electric (on demand or small tank) or diesel, each one having pros/cons. those of you with electric are you running it constantly or is it on a switch you flip when you anticipate using? what size battery bank are you using? crunching numbers with a 4gal bosch it looks like I would need 334ah factoring in the inverter inefficiency but giving myself no wiggle room on usage (477ah when taking into account 70% discharge if I go lithium) that's a big battery bank in my opinion... any light to shed on that? I will be putting in Solar but that's more of a for the future thing. I'm in Alaska so needing a 60-degree tilt and really only having 3 months of "real" sun isn't something I want to count on for my 100% recharge daily, although it will give me a little.

Diesel system from Rixen looks pretty top of the line but at a cost, all the while still needing batteries.. fewer but still need them. All of this plays into the layout and where my next moves will be. I know this was wordy and if you've gotten this far thanks for hanging in there. your thoughts and time is appreciated.
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:26 AM   #2
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Default Re: 170ext land yacht

Hey noob,

Welcome aboard (yacht jokes!). I had a similar list of features as you stated which I built into my 05 158".

I have the 4 gallon Bosch electric heater paired to a single 260 ah AGM battery @12V and 345 w solar panel up top flat on the roof.

We pretty much just use the heater for taking outdoor showers. It provides enough hot water for both my wife and I to take a conservative shower, Navy-style (water on to get wet, water off while you soap yourself, water back on to rinse off), with hot water left over.

If I run the heater from cold with no charging source enabled, it takes about 40% of my battery capacity. I have a switch to connect to the alternator, and just got in the habit of turning on the heater in the last part of my daily drive. This get more then enough juice to fully heat the tank without draining any from the house battery.

This is the only time I use the alternator connection, I leave it disconnected the rest of the time as the solar provides enough for everything else.

BTW, for hot drinking water we have a little electric tea kettle which is a lot easier than boiling a pot of water or waiting a half hour for the Bosch to heat up.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Dan

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Old 07-31-2018, 11:06 AM   #3
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Default Re: 170ext land yacht

Looking from the perspective of all appliances requiring high energy would likely result in a better overall decision. Space heating, water heating, stove, fridge should be included in the analysis. Space heating will most likely require LPG or diesel or gas; water heating LPG or diesel or limited electric; fridge LPG or electric; stove electric or LPG, or diesel, or ethanol.

Search for “D5 water heating”, “Isotemp”, “Truma”, “D2”, “Webasto Dual Top”, “Propex”, “Malaga” and a very expensive Rixen.

I have D2, D5, Isotemp, Ethanol/Electric stove, Isotherm compressor fridge.

Good luck.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: 170ext land yacht

I run the elecric water heaters (Bosch 4 gallon)

I have the outlet that the heater is on, on a switch. When we want to use it, I turn it on. For a full heat, it takes 40AH of battery, but the Solar, or Engine charge the battery back up with zero issues.
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Old 07-31-2018, 04:20 PM   #5
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Default Re: 170ext land yacht

“334 to 477 ah to heat 4 gallons of water” ? That seems excessive. I think Grant’s number of 40 ah is more reasonable. I estimate 40-50 ah to heat 4 gallons of water 60 degrees F.


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Old 07-31-2018, 04:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: 170ext land yacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by gltrimble View Post
“334 to 477 ah to heat 4 gallons of water” ? That seems excessive. I think Grant’s number of 40 ah is more reasonable. I estimate 40-50 ah to heat 4 gallons of water 60 degrees F.


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Yeah, ive done the data and math with my setup. A solid 40AH to heat from regular temp to 140 with a 10 hour degrade to 100.

It's a nifty little unit.
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Old 07-31-2018, 05:25 PM   #7
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Default Re: 170ext land yacht

First you need to decide if you want only shower water or also hot water for your sink. Do you want hot water available full time or just when you want to shower? Different requirements require different system designs.

I only need to heat shower water and do not need hot water available full time. Do not need hot water at a sink and only need warm water for a shower. I use a 120 volt AC 625 watt heating element in a tank to heat 5 gallons of 65 degree tank water to 95 degrees in 45 minutes. No hot cold water mixing, no plumbing and no pressurized water system. Pump water out of the tank with a submersible 12 volt DC pump to a garden hose and nozzle. A 12 volt heating element could be used instead of the AC element.

I can power the AC heating element three ways. One is from shore power, a second is from the vehicle powered inverter and the third is from the house battery/inverter. The vehicle powered inverter requires the engine to be running. Power from the house battery/inverter can only be used on sunny days.

Using the house battery/inverter uses about 10% of the 255 amp-hr capacity to heat 65 degree water to 95 degrees. If I heat the water in the morning I can still get back to 100% SOC in the afternoon with sunny weather. I have a single 300 watt solar panel with a MPPT solar controller. On poor weather days I have to use the vehicle powered inverter with the engine idling. Have a gas engine so idling is not a problem.
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Old 07-31-2018, 06:31 PM   #8
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Default Re: 170ext land yacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by gltrimble View Post
“334 to 477 ah to heat 4 gallons of water” ? That seems excessive. I think Grant’s number of 40 ah is more reasonable. I estimate 40-50 ah to heat 4 gallons of water 60 degrees F.


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HAHA! sorry about that i should have clarified, that was my calculations for my entire load list 2 fans, fridge, d2 heater, lights, chargers ect. including the hot water for one hour @1440watts
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:45 PM   #9
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Default Re: 170ext land yacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by vannoob View Post
HAHA! sorry about that i should have clarified, that was my calculations for my entire load list 2 fans, fridge, d2 heater, lights, chargers ect. including the hot water for one hour @1440watts
The Bosch heater completes it's heating cycle in half an hour, not a full hour. That's a big draw difference. Unless you think you are going to heat, use and reheat twice a day. My load list is nearly identical to yours and I have never had a problem on 260ah.

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Old 08-01-2018, 07:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: 170ext land yacht

A heater with engine coolant coil is very useful for frequent drivers.
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