T1N not warming up unless driven, help please

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Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
The idea of warming up a car before driving is a leftover from a time when cars had: Poorly adjusted carburetors, low quality materials matching and machining tolerances, ancient oil formulas that didn't flow when cold, and no electronic engine controls. Since the late 80s cars have been designed with tight tolerances, and parts matched to expansion rates and operation at various temperatures. Oils have improved by leaps and bounds, and electronic controls have eliminated over/under fueling due to low engine temps.
 
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Patrick of M

2005 T1N 2500 (NA spec)
Midwestdrifter said:
The idea of warming up a car before driving is a leftover from a time when cars had: Poorly adjusted carburetors, low quality materials matching and machining tolerances, ancient oil formulas that didn't flow when cold, and no electronic engine controls. Since the late 80s cars have been designed with tight tolerances, and parts matched to expansion rates and operation at various temperatures. Oils have improved by leaps and bounds, and electronic controls have eliminated over/under fueling due to low engine temps.
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Agreed, best way to warm an engine is to use it. Even my 68 Volvo with twin carbs and manual chokes gets maybe 10secs to sort itself before I pull away on a cold day.
The one exception would be when it used to live in a valley with a steep hill as its first challenge a 100 meters from its parking space, I used to let it run for awhile before that.
 
2

220629

Well-known member
My opinion on old school engine pre-warming is that it provides no benefit at all. It probably won't hurt a modern engine, but why do it?

Patrick of M said:
Fwiw a failed open thermo won’t get my van up to operating temp no matter how far /fast I drive when the weather is below -10C. Even with a brand new OEM thermostat it still takes awhile,to get there and it is cold out the van won’t warm up by itself in city traffic, it will eventually get alsmost there. I may be my mild fuel saving way of driving, very rare for me to even go 3/4 throttle ( I only mention this because when I let my brother drive my van i was surprised at how heavy his throttle inputs were, but he usually drives a Ram turbo diesel pick up with a manual ).
The other thing I notice is how fast it loses heat when turned off while I’m in a store.
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FWIW.
My experience is along the lines of Patrick's. With low speed, stop and go city driving it takes some time to get anywhere near 180F.

Both my 2004 and 2006 respond as described below.

Aqua Puttana said:
FWIW. My 2004 T1N has always been OK for heat. The other day I watched things a bit closer to get some timing. About 30 F ambient. A 1/2 mile back street drive to the expressway entrance ramp. About 2 miles to the toll barrier with 55 mph limit. 65 mph limit from there.


Started van @ approx. 7:42 a.m. (drive to the on ramp and tolls)
Temp hit 145 F about 7:48 a.m. (a bit after paying toll)
Temp hit a couple ticks below 180 F about 7:56 a.m. (driving at about 62 mph)
About 8:07 a.m. still just under 180 F. I reduced the cabin blower fan speed and adjusted the vents because it was starting to get a bit hot.

Not very scientific, but gives an idea of how mine works. Same basic results in colder weather. It just takes a little longer to hit the temperature benchmarks.

I think Gears hit on a good thing to check with the jiggle valve. Anything which allows too much coolant to by-pass the stat will keep operating temperatures down. Any by-pass leakage will not affect summer driving temperatures so much.

I also think the 12 minute change out time and $75.00 parts described by Mr. Schmancy is better time spent and cost effective than a visit to the shop for evaluation. I'd try that first.:2cents: Hope this does some good. AP/vic
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Aqua Puttana said:
Another data point.

I had problems with my Bluetooth interface. Got a call. Pulled into a school lot to answer. Old man in a van. Stranger Danger!!! :bash:

Anyway. 23F ambient by my dash. Around town driving had my engine temperature up to around 175F interpreted from my OEM gauge needle. Idled during my 16 minute phone conversation. I didn't touch the throttle the entire time. The gauge fell to about 150F and remained there until I drove off. It didn't get anywhere near the low end 110F mark. (I suspect that a leaking thermostat would.)

FWIW. vic
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Aqua Puttana said:
Another data point from my 2004 which *appears* to be cooling/heating as to what I would consider normal.

29F ambient. Approx. 65 mph. A sign posted a caution for trucks. 5 mile 5% down grade.

My engine temperature was around 180F at the beginning of the long downhill run. The engine temperature fairly quickly dropped to mid point between 180F and next lower hash mark (145F). I would interpret that midpoint temperature reading as 160F. For the rest of the downhill run the engine temperature never went below that midpoint temperature.

On the climb following the 5 mile/5% the temperature moved to a bit above 180F and then settled back to 180F or a tick lower.

So with my engine, the thermostat was able to maintain the engine temperature at the midpoint below 180F (160F?) even when the engine wasn't producing much power at speed on a very long downhill grade in 29F ambient.

FWIW. vic
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Patrick of M

2005 T1N 2500 (NA spec)
An interesting addition to this topic is that Volvo at some point in the late 70s early 80s applied a resistor or something to the eng temp display to smooth out variations, I’m sure a lot of modern cars do this as well. Basically the temp display does not move once warmed up until the temp starts getting extreme. Not my cup of tea, I would rather know, apparently MB agrees and the temp gage really moves around. My 68 Volvo has a fuel gage that does not have any circuitry to smooth out , very irritating in that set up.
 
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Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
Many vehicles don't have a true temp gauge on the dash (not the sprinter). Instead it has three positions. Low, normal, and high. Until the engine is normal, it shows low. From normal till most of the to overheated, it stays planted at the middle. Then suddenly it will move to TOO HOT! This still alerts drivers (along with a chime and error light), but prevents nuisance owners going to the dealer for a warranty claim because their new truck is "running hot" (over 150F) pulling a trailer.
 
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VinceP

2005 158" High Roof Pass.
Well, from all your testimonies, I a quite sure I need a new Thermostat. Ordered a Behr one. I also need to : Replace the rotten aux. heater pipes with heater hose as described by Vic, replace the rotten pipe below radiator (have a new one in hand), replace coolant and thermostat, and replace the Aux coolant pump (have new in hand). But hell it's been cold in Montreal the last couple of days. No chance of having acceptable weather to work on the Sprinter. Now forecast is 15 cm of snow tomorrow :(
I also need to figure out my Espar, but i'm very tempted to order a complete new unit as a few other members did. Mine didn't work for at least 7 years. ECU is not fried. I will try to loosen the fan, if unsuccesful, new one it will be.
I am using little the Sprinter in the Winter, but when I do so, it's for shorter drive with the van full of kids (School hockey team). So the working Espar would prevent me from having to go on the highway for 10 minutes before picking up the kids in order to have some heat...
Patrick, where do you buy your coolant in Montreal? What type?
 
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