M
MerlinTheTraderRVer
Guest
6 months ago, I didn't know anything about RVs, never been in one, never driven one, never even went camping, what can I say, I was a city guy busy at doing ONE THING : Getting my financial independence. Now that this is done and even bringing some friends with me too, we are all learning about RV and we are learning FAST, maybe too fast.
Dean told me that he was impressed at how much I learned, maybe this was a joke maybe not but I told him "That's right but THAT SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENING" because I took for granted that the RVs sold today had all that we have in our residential home but it turns out they don't. So I had to dig for answers and that's why I learned so much, it's because the RVs sold today are not at the "Residential Level" at least not yet.
To understand what I'm saying here, let me tell you about my friend Sebastian who is just 30 and got married last year. His wife and him told me to ask Dean about adding an induction cooktop to their RV instead of the propane burner and then I went "Oh boy " here we go again.
I had to tell him that to get that appliance, you would have to add MANY different components to the RV like a bigger inverter since the cooktop, at 1,500+ Watts, it will go way above the 600 watts the present Unity inverter can go to and that will make the inverter breaker pop or make the generator run (which we try to avoid at almost all cost here).
If you want to avoid using propane and have an induction cooktop (like we find in the Roadteck E-trek), you will need at least 300+ Watt (500 if you can) of solar panels, a bigger inverter (around 3,000W), residential grade electrical wires and additional batteries to store all that energy needed for the cooktop.
He didn't know (same for me) that RVs sold today were so far away from having residential appliances and electrical components. You couldn't even use a hair dryer without overloading the present electrical system that comes in most RVs today.
So you see, he had to learn about all this just to add a lousy induction cooktop plate to his new RV. That's not normal.
But that's not all. After he told me "well, ok then, let's add all those components" I told him about... yep, you guessed it....the infamous GVWR max weight.
On top of that we had to learn about the different Classes of RV (B is not a B+, etc...) because for us, all we knew about RVs were the huge big buss like RVs (Class A) and the famous Class C Winnebago but didn't want to go with those because they are gas guzzlers so we looked at the MB Sprinter Class B and B+.
Let's take a closer look at those Class B and B+ RVs here...
Again the main goal is to have in our RV all the BIG 5 sections that we have a regular residential home.
- Big bedroom
- Big bathroom
- Big kitchen and galley
- Big dining room
- Big living room
In RVs, if you don't go with a Class A, you can kiss good bye the Big living room which is now replaced with the dining room that covers both.
So in a Class B RV, we now have to look our for those BIG 4 sections.
- Residential size bedroom
- Residential size bathroom
- Residential size kitchen and galley
- Residential size dining room
Right from the start, if you look at Class B (LTV's Free Spirit, Roadtrek e-trek, Airstream interstate, etc) you can see right away that you will NEVER have all those 4 big sections.
You will either have a very small bed (folding sofa bed) in the back or a closet size bathroom with the shower, the toilet bowl and the sink ALL in that closet size space and if you decide to go with the Free Spirit SS with the Murphy Bed, when the bed is down, there is no Dining room space left and you will need to extend the slide out everytime you sleep.
So right there, if your goal is to have a RV that has residential size sections, the 20 footer Class B RV cannot deliver. If you want a bigger or more luxurious camper van then you will love those Class B but as for us, we have to continue our search for the perfect Residential RV.
In 2012 LTV had this Regency 29GT model...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXceurv7HLs
Basically, it has ALL the BIG 4 sections (without the electrical components though) that we find in a residential house.
So at least now we know that we don't need to have a 42 footer RV to have all those BIG 4 sections but 29 feet is still a bit long here. So the perfect "Residential RV" would be somewhere between the small 20 foot Class B and the large Class B+ like the 29GT here.
And now comes in the B+ RV...
With the B+ (Widebody Class B), we can separate the shower from the bathroom and therefore have a small but residential size bathroom. We can also have in the back an island bed or twin beds giving us a residential size bedroom. We will find a small but big enough kitchen galley to cook and with a slide out, we can also have a fairly big enough dinette.
But here's the problem...
All these 4 sections are there in the 4 floor plans of the Unity but you will NOT find them ALL 4 in THE SAME RV.
With the 24CB Corner Bed, you have these 3 residential size sections...
- Residential size bathroom
- Residential size kitchen and galley
- Residential size dining room
However, if you look at the bedroom, you will not find a residential size one. It will be a small bed put in the back corner of the RV.
With the 24IB (Island Bed) or 24TB (Twin Beds) you will find these 3 residential size sections...
- Residential size bathroom
- Residential size kitchen and galley
- Residential size bedroom
However, if you look at the dining room, you will find a small table with 1 seat on each side of it.
With the 24MB (Murphy Bed), you get all 4 BIG sections but NEVER at the same time. The residential size dinette/U-Lounge has to go to bring the residential size bed down.
So once again, we know that the perfect "Resdential size RV" is between 24 and 29 feet. 29 being a bit too long and 24 seems to be too short to get all 4 residential size sections in the SAME RV.
The perfect size here seem to be 26 ft like the RV from Coach House who managed to fit ALL those Big 4 Sections IN THE SAME RV (Model 241 XL) EVEN on a MB chassis that has no slide out (Model 240) to save an extra 350 lb and give you enough "weight room" to add 5 super thin flexible solar panels on the roof, replace the 1,000W with a 3,000W pure sine wave inverter, 2 or 4 additional batteries, an induction cooktop and then some and still be under the 11,030 GVWR weight.
You can see the big Queen Bed in the back and half of the Dinette on this pic... Btw, this is the one WITH the slide out and despite the extra weight, they still manage to get approved by MB and go under the 11,030 GVWR.
http://www.coachhouserv.com/img-content/model-gallery-241XL/241XL-QD-view-aft-cmyk-8523.jpg
The other half here...
http://www.coachhouserv.com/img-content/model-gallery-241XL/241XL-QD-view-forward_8601-cmyk.jpg
The extra 14 inches they have longer then LTV Unitys is hardly visible here...
http://www.coachhouserv.com/img-content/model-gallery-241XL/241-ext-showroom-cmyk_8611.jpg
Sadly for us though, being about 25 miles North of this stupid line drawn in the sand called The US/CAN Border, we cannot buy their RV according to Coach House VP.
However, this little research was interesting because in about 6 months or so, we found out a lot about RVing and what to buy to upgrade them to have the same lifestyle that we have in our residential home where we just buy any appliances we want and not worry about a small 600W inverter that will trip the breaker or see it transfer the load to the noisy gas guzzling generator.
In regular houses, we usually have a 6,000 Watt inverter so whatever we plug in, it will work WITHOUT the need to go outside and plug in a generator. This is where the RV industry is going.
According to Dean, we are about 5 years away form this level of RV where RV manufacturers will produce them in mass.
We can however dump a big load of $$ on those manufacturer's desk and get most of them to upgrade them but it will cost us an arm and a leg. We might go this road or outsource the work and looking at the major threads on the first 2-3 pages of this forum wanting to go solar and having this induction cooktop appliance, we are not alone.
Thanks for taking the time to read about our Quest #1 here (Having a residential RV).
Cheers,
Merlin
Dean told me that he was impressed at how much I learned, maybe this was a joke maybe not but I told him "That's right but THAT SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENING" because I took for granted that the RVs sold today had all that we have in our residential home but it turns out they don't. So I had to dig for answers and that's why I learned so much, it's because the RVs sold today are not at the "Residential Level" at least not yet.
To understand what I'm saying here, let me tell you about my friend Sebastian who is just 30 and got married last year. His wife and him told me to ask Dean about adding an induction cooktop to their RV instead of the propane burner and then I went "Oh boy " here we go again.
I had to tell him that to get that appliance, you would have to add MANY different components to the RV like a bigger inverter since the cooktop, at 1,500+ Watts, it will go way above the 600 watts the present Unity inverter can go to and that will make the inverter breaker pop or make the generator run (which we try to avoid at almost all cost here).
If you want to avoid using propane and have an induction cooktop (like we find in the Roadteck E-trek), you will need at least 300+ Watt (500 if you can) of solar panels, a bigger inverter (around 3,000W), residential grade electrical wires and additional batteries to store all that energy needed for the cooktop.
He didn't know (same for me) that RVs sold today were so far away from having residential appliances and electrical components. You couldn't even use a hair dryer without overloading the present electrical system that comes in most RVs today.
So you see, he had to learn about all this just to add a lousy induction cooktop plate to his new RV. That's not normal.
But that's not all. After he told me "well, ok then, let's add all those components" I told him about... yep, you guessed it....the infamous GVWR max weight.
On top of that we had to learn about the different Classes of RV (B is not a B+, etc...) because for us, all we knew about RVs were the huge big buss like RVs (Class A) and the famous Class C Winnebago but didn't want to go with those because they are gas guzzlers so we looked at the MB Sprinter Class B and B+.
Let's take a closer look at those Class B and B+ RVs here...
Again the main goal is to have in our RV all the BIG 5 sections that we have a regular residential home.
- Big bedroom
- Big bathroom
- Big kitchen and galley
- Big dining room
- Big living room
In RVs, if you don't go with a Class A, you can kiss good bye the Big living room which is now replaced with the dining room that covers both.
So in a Class B RV, we now have to look our for those BIG 4 sections.
- Residential size bedroom
- Residential size bathroom
- Residential size kitchen and galley
- Residential size dining room
Right from the start, if you look at Class B (LTV's Free Spirit, Roadtrek e-trek, Airstream interstate, etc) you can see right away that you will NEVER have all those 4 big sections.
You will either have a very small bed (folding sofa bed) in the back or a closet size bathroom with the shower, the toilet bowl and the sink ALL in that closet size space and if you decide to go with the Free Spirit SS with the Murphy Bed, when the bed is down, there is no Dining room space left and you will need to extend the slide out everytime you sleep.
So right there, if your goal is to have a RV that has residential size sections, the 20 footer Class B RV cannot deliver. If you want a bigger or more luxurious camper van then you will love those Class B but as for us, we have to continue our search for the perfect Residential RV.
In 2012 LTV had this Regency 29GT model...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXceurv7HLs
Basically, it has ALL the BIG 4 sections (without the electrical components though) that we find in a residential house.
So at least now we know that we don't need to have a 42 footer RV to have all those BIG 4 sections but 29 feet is still a bit long here. So the perfect "Residential RV" would be somewhere between the small 20 foot Class B and the large Class B+ like the 29GT here.
And now comes in the B+ RV...
With the B+ (Widebody Class B), we can separate the shower from the bathroom and therefore have a small but residential size bathroom. We can also have in the back an island bed or twin beds giving us a residential size bedroom. We will find a small but big enough kitchen galley to cook and with a slide out, we can also have a fairly big enough dinette.
But here's the problem...
All these 4 sections are there in the 4 floor plans of the Unity but you will NOT find them ALL 4 in THE SAME RV.
With the 24CB Corner Bed, you have these 3 residential size sections...
- Residential size bathroom
- Residential size kitchen and galley
- Residential size dining room
However, if you look at the bedroom, you will not find a residential size one. It will be a small bed put in the back corner of the RV.
With the 24IB (Island Bed) or 24TB (Twin Beds) you will find these 3 residential size sections...
- Residential size bathroom
- Residential size kitchen and galley
- Residential size bedroom
However, if you look at the dining room, you will find a small table with 1 seat on each side of it.
With the 24MB (Murphy Bed), you get all 4 BIG sections but NEVER at the same time. The residential size dinette/U-Lounge has to go to bring the residential size bed down.
So once again, we know that the perfect "Resdential size RV" is between 24 and 29 feet. 29 being a bit too long and 24 seems to be too short to get all 4 residential size sections in the SAME RV.
The perfect size here seem to be 26 ft like the RV from Coach House who managed to fit ALL those Big 4 Sections IN THE SAME RV (Model 241 XL) EVEN on a MB chassis that has no slide out (Model 240) to save an extra 350 lb and give you enough "weight room" to add 5 super thin flexible solar panels on the roof, replace the 1,000W with a 3,000W pure sine wave inverter, 2 or 4 additional batteries, an induction cooktop and then some and still be under the 11,030 GVWR weight.
You can see the big Queen Bed in the back and half of the Dinette on this pic... Btw, this is the one WITH the slide out and despite the extra weight, they still manage to get approved by MB and go under the 11,030 GVWR.
http://www.coachhouserv.com/img-content/model-gallery-241XL/241XL-QD-view-aft-cmyk-8523.jpg
The other half here...
http://www.coachhouserv.com/img-content/model-gallery-241XL/241XL-QD-view-forward_8601-cmyk.jpg
The extra 14 inches they have longer then LTV Unitys is hardly visible here...
http://www.coachhouserv.com/img-content/model-gallery-241XL/241-ext-showroom-cmyk_8611.jpg
Sadly for us though, being about 25 miles North of this stupid line drawn in the sand called The US/CAN Border, we cannot buy their RV according to Coach House VP.
However, this little research was interesting because in about 6 months or so, we found out a lot about RVing and what to buy to upgrade them to have the same lifestyle that we have in our residential home where we just buy any appliances we want and not worry about a small 600W inverter that will trip the breaker or see it transfer the load to the noisy gas guzzling generator.
In regular houses, we usually have a 6,000 Watt inverter so whatever we plug in, it will work WITHOUT the need to go outside and plug in a generator. This is where the RV industry is going.
According to Dean, we are about 5 years away form this level of RV where RV manufacturers will produce them in mass.
We can however dump a big load of $$ on those manufacturer's desk and get most of them to upgrade them but it will cost us an arm and a leg. We might go this road or outsource the work and looking at the major threads on the first 2-3 pages of this forum wanting to go solar and having this induction cooktop appliance, we are not alone.
Thanks for taking the time to read about our Quest #1 here (Having a residential RV).
Cheers,
Merlin