Sprinter-Forum    
 

Go Back   Sprinter-Forum > General Forums > Sprinter Talk

Sprinter Talk General discussion about anything and everything about Sprinters.
SubForums: Events Scanners


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-20-2019, 11:50 PM   #21
marklg
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Arizona Desert
Posts: 842
Thanks: 152
Thanked 366 Times in 277 Posts
Default Re: Green Diesel Engineering - Compliance Form- California

Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti View Post
This letter and the action it represents is only applicable to CA. However, these devices also violate the federal Clean Air Act in exactly the same way, so we can all hopefully look forward to the other shoe dropping.
The EPA already has already paid them an unannounced visit:

https://ofmpub.epa.gov/apex/tocar/f?...659930255:::::

Search for "green diesel"

Shoe is on it's way down.

Regards,

Mark
marklg is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to marklg For This Useful Post:
avanti (11-21-2019), Old Crows (11-21-2019)
Old 11-21-2019, 12:06 AM   #22
OrioN
2008 2500 170" EXT
 
OrioN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 11,032
Thanks: 619
Thanked 2,738 Times in 1,999 Posts
Default Re: Green Diesel Engineering - Compliance Form- California

Quote:
Originally Posted by marklg View Post
The EPA already has already paid them an unannounced visit:

https://ofmpub.epa.gov/apex/tocar/f?...659930255:::::

Search for "green diesel"

Shoe is on it's way down.

Regards,

Mark
Must read, very enlightening....

Green Diesel Engineering Inspection Report_EPA.pdf
OrioN is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to OrioN For This Useful Post:
Mitinflight (01-28-2020)
Old 11-21-2019, 12:25 AM   #23
smiller
2008 View J (NCV3 3500)
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,568
Thanks: 540
Thanked 3,164 Times in 1,896 Posts
Default Re: Green Diesel Engineering - Compliance Form- California

Not to rain on anyone's freak-out fest, but email is hardly a channel for formal legal notification. One could legitimately have changed their email address, or a message may not be received for any of a host of reasons. In this case CARB would have to request that the DMV block your registration renewal absent due process or even any proof that the individual has been notified of a violation or given any opportunity to remedy, and this seems rather unlikely. As an individual California GDE user the best thing to do might be to just sit tight and see if anything ever really happens.

As to other states, impossible to say. Enforcement of this sort of thing varies wildly from relentless in California to just don't care (or at least not enough to devote resources) in others, and everything in between. But bottom line if you are not registered in California I wouldn't exactly be up nights over this.

It certainly didn't seem wise for GDE to market products in California given CARB's well-known penchant for strict enforcement, that much is for sure.

.

Last edited by smiller; 11-21-2019 at 12:35 AM.
smiller is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to smiller For This Useful Post:
cookieAK (12-26-2019), Old Crows (11-21-2019)
Old 11-21-2019, 12:31 AM   #24
OrioN
2008 2500 170" EXT
 
OrioN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 11,032
Thanks: 619
Thanked 2,738 Times in 1,999 Posts
Default Re: Green Diesel Engineering - Compliance Form- California

Quote:
Originally Posted by smiller View Post
Not to rain on anyone's freak-out fest, but email is hardly a channel for formal legal notification. One could legitimately have changed their email address, or a message may not be received for any of a host of reasons. In this case CARB would have to request that the DMV block your registration renewal absent due process, or even any proof that the individual has been notified of a violation, and this seems rather unlikely. As in individual California GDE user the best thing to do might be to just sit tight and see if anything ever really happens.

As to other states, impossible to say. Enforcement of this sort of thing varies wildly from relentless in California to just don't care (or at least not enough to devote resources) in others, and everything in between. But bottom line if you are not registered in California I wouldn't exactly be up nights over this.

It certainly didn't seem wise for GDE to market products in California given CARB's well-known penchant for strict enforcement, that much is for sure.

.
Tick.... tick.... tick.... tick.....


Don't fool yourself in thinking that they won't go the distance, and with you.
OrioN is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to OrioN For This Useful Post:
Old Crows (11-21-2019)
Old 11-21-2019, 12:52 AM   #25
Aqua Puttana
Poly - Thread Finder
 
Aqua Puttana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Falls of Niagara, USA
Posts: 25,659
Thanks: 13,387
Thanked 14,577 Times in 9,261 Posts
Default Re: Green Diesel Engineering - Compliance Form- California

Quote:
Originally Posted by smiller View Post
...

As to other states, impossible to say. Enforcement of this sort of thing varies wildly from relentless in California to just don't care (or at least not enough to devote resources) in others, and everything in between. But bottom line if you are not registered in California I wouldn't exactly be up nights over this.

It certainly didn't seem wise for GDE to market products in California given CARB's well-known penchant for strict enforcement, that much is for sure.

.
If my recollection is correct.
Being that GDE modifications only applied to NAS aka NAFTA MY 2001 - 2007, the States, and even Feds, that just don't care may be the smart ones. The T1N and first 2 years of NAS Sprinters will age out of service on their own. "Bigger fish to fry" comes to mind unless CARB is trying to send a message and GDE was the low hanging fruit.

Even then, the newer ECM aka ECU all have better protections against illicit emission control modification.

Keep it civil and carry on.

vic
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.
Aqua Puttana is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Aqua Puttana For This Useful Post:
HighPockets (11-21-2019), Old Crows (11-21-2019)
Old 11-21-2019, 12:58 AM   #26
avanti
2014 GWV Legend 3500 I4
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 4,859
Thanks: 1,797
Thanked 3,088 Times in 1,890 Posts
Default Re: Green Diesel Engineering - Compliance Form- California

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
If my recollection is correct.
Being that GDE modifications only applied to NAS aka NAFTA MY 2001 - 2007, the States, and even Feds, that just don't care may be the smart ones. The T1N and first 2 years of NAS Sprinters will age out of service on their own. "Bigger fish to fry" comes to mind unless CARB is trying to send a message and GDE was the low hanging fruit.
It isn't just "low hanging fruit". There is no doubt a long tail of small bottom-feeding businesses doing this kind of crap. They may well add up to serious impact in aggregate. I am sure the regulators do want to send a message that just being small does not make them invulnerable.
__________________
--Pete
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (2500 T1N)
Now: 2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to avanti For This Useful Post:
Aqua Puttana (11-21-2019), Old Crows (11-21-2019)
Old 11-21-2019, 01:31 AM   #27
smiller
2008 View J (NCV3 3500)
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,568
Thanks: 540
Thanked 3,164 Times in 1,896 Posts
Default Re: Green Diesel Engineering - Compliance Form- California

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
If my recollection is correct.
Being that GDE modifications only applied to NAS aka NAFTA MY 2001 - 2007, the States, and even Feds, that just don't care may be the smart ones. The T1N and first 2 years of NAS Sprinters will age out of service on their own. "Bigger fish to fry" comes to mind unless CARB is trying to send a message and GDE was the low hanging fruit.

Even then, the newer ECM aka ECU all have better protections against illicit emission control modification.
It may not be much more than they were simply in violation of CARB regulations and got caught. But 'bigger fish to fry' probably does apply in that while it doesn't cost much to go after the source (GDE) it would be a complex proposition to try to identify every user, formally contact them (in the absence of valid contact info in many cases), and then track whether they have come back into compliance, and then enforce after some time period if they have not. CARB has gone after many such violators on a corporate level but I'm not aware of a case when they have gone after thousands (or perhaps tens of thousands, as in other examples) of private purchasers, often with scant records as to who/what/when/where, to try to enforce removal of equipment on an individual basis. That would be an enormous task and as such unlikely.

So again I would not exactly be holding my breath waiting for my registration to be canceled out of the blue, in California or any other state. As to whether it's a bad idea to sell illegal modifications in California... well, ya.
smiller is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to smiller For This Useful Post:
Mitinflight (01-28-2020)
Old 11-21-2019, 01:44 AM   #28
OrioN
2008 2500 170" EXT
 
OrioN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 11,032
Thanks: 619
Thanked 2,738 Times in 1,999 Posts
Default Re: Green Diesel Engineering - Compliance Form- California

Quote:
Originally Posted by smiller View Post
It may not be much more than they were simply in violation of CARB regulations and got caught. But 'bigger fish to fry' probably does apply in that while it doesn't cost much to go after the source (GDE) it would be a complex proposition to try to identify every user, formally contact them (in the absence of valid contact info in many cases), and then track whether they have come back into compliance, and then enforce after some time period if they have not. CARB has gone after many such violators on a corporate level but I'm not aware of a case when they have gone after thousands (or perhaps tens of thousands, as in other examples) of private purchasers, often with scant records as to who/what/when/where, to try to enforce removal of equipment on an individual basis. That would be an enormous task and as such unlikely.

So again I would not exactly be holding my breath waiting for my registration to be canceled out of the blue, in California or any other state. As to whether it's a bad idea to sell illegal modifications in California... well, ya.
"It may not be much more than they were simply in violation of CARB regulations and got caught."

In order for GDE to be noncompliance, CARB would have to have the proof that sales occurred. By GDE's own words they have complied and submitted the evidence which most likely is to the tune of all their CA sales. Regardless of whether or not GDE can or cannot contact you, CARB will and by or when you go to re-register your vehicle. If GDE cannot prove your vehicle was remedied, eventually you will have too.
OrioN is offline  
Old 11-21-2019, 01:51 AM   #29
avanti
2014 GWV Legend 3500 I4
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 4,859
Thanks: 1,797
Thanked 3,088 Times in 1,890 Posts
Default Re: Green Diesel Engineering - Compliance Form- California

Quote:
Originally Posted by smiller View Post
It may not be much more than they were simply in violation of CARB regulations and got caught. But 'bigger fish to fry' probably does apply in that while it doesn't cost much to go after the source (GDE) it would be a complex proposition to try to identify every user, formally contact them (in the absence of valid contact info in many cases), and then track whether they have come back into compliance, and then enforce after some time period if they have not. CARB has gone after many such violators on a corporate level but I'm not aware of a case when they have gone after thousands (or perhaps tens of thousands, as in other examples) of private purchasers, often with scant records as to who/what/when/where, to try to enforce removal of equipment on an individual basis. That would be an enormous task and as such unlikely.

So again I would not exactly be holding my breath waiting for my registration to be canceled out of the blue, in California or any other state. As to whether it's a bad idea to sell illegal modifications in California... well, ya.
Yeah, I daresay you would prefer this to be true.

You're the one who shouldn't hold his breath. Your description of the complexity is correct, but if you read the letter, you will see that all the hard parts have been off-loaded to GDE as part of the consent decree. THEY have to deliver VINs of their customers to CARB, which I agree won't be easy. This won't cost the government anything. Once they have a spreadsheet of VINs that haven't had their "tunes" undone, it is just pushing buttons to pull their registration.

The "cost effectiveness" argument is also specious. As long as there is a demand for some criminal product or service, there will always be suppliers. That is why drug users are pursued, and not just dealers. It is probably true that you will only get a slap on the wrist. That is exactly what losing the ability to register your polluting van is.

This is all very gratifying.
__________________
--Pete
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (2500 T1N)
Now: 2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is offline  
Old 11-21-2019, 02:00 AM   #30
avanti
2014 GWV Legend 3500 I4
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 4,859
Thanks: 1,797
Thanked 3,088 Times in 1,890 Posts
Default Re: Green Diesel Engineering - Compliance Form- California

Quote:
Originally Posted by marklg View Post
The EPA already has already paid them an unannounced visit:

https://ofmpub.epa.gov/apex/tocar/f?...659930255:::::

Search for "green diesel"

Shoe is on it's way down.
What a crack up. I especially liked this part:

Quote:
According to Mr. Cavallini, GDE only conducts the research and development (R&D) of these tunes. A separate, confidential company, which Mr. Cavallini referred to as "Company X," conducts the engineering and mechanical work. Mr. Cavallini further explained that this work is contracted out by GDE to Company X.
What a slimeball.
__________________
--Pete
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (2500 T1N)
Now: 2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.