When/Why did this forum become a flame fest?

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icarus

Well-known member
I have noticed of late a increasing amount of nasty, flaming behavior in this forum. It seems that some people when confronted with opinon not to thier liking resort to personal attack, bad language and behavior. What was once a great forum, open to ideas, helpful to many, is rapidly becoming what many other forums have become, an open sewer where respect, civility and decent behavior becomes rarer.

My suggestions, fwiw is to close the off topic/danger zone, or at the very least moderate it so that the worst offenders feet are held to the fire. It is one thing for tis behavior to be tolerated in the "danger zone" but the enevitable result is that it tends to increasingly bleed into the the general forum. The net result of this is that many well respected members just fold up thier tent and leave, leaving the rest of us without the benefit of the community of knowledge. Some of these guys find great sport in this, even to the poit of following members to other forums and flaming them there!


Feel free to accuse me of being open to censorship, but this is not a "free speach" forum, but rather it is an open forum with the intensive purpose of sharing Sprinter info.

Bring On the flaming response(s)

Icarus
 
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For some, being a jerk is easy. Respectful debate and tact require a higher level of maturity. Too many people just want to take the easy way.
 

johnshmit

Well-known member
Sounds great.
The result of pervasive and institutionalized liberal censorship is termed liberal totalitarianism.

We will support free speech, except for those who we disagree with.
 
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Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
I think what Icarus is suggesting is that we respect other folks opinions and be glad they post. No need to attack someone who has different beliefs. It is beneficial to hear all opinions so we can formulate ours. Personal attacks just eliminate opinions from people that get aggravated by unnecessary attacks. We are all adults so we should act like adults. Attacks just reflect on the immaturity displayed by the attacker. OK to disagree, just do it in an intelligent way.
 
I think what Icarus is suggesting is that we respect other folks opinions and be glad they post. No need to attack someone who has different beliefs. It is beneficial to hear all opinions so we can formulate ours. Personal attacks just eliminate opinions from people that get aggravated by unnecessary attacks. We are all adults so we should act like adults. Attacks just reflect on the immaturity displayed by the attacker. OK to disagree, just do it in an intelligent way.
I couldn't agree more; the concept of "disagreeing without being disagreeable" has nothing whatever to do with "free speech" or the limiting thereof, and everything to do with mature, respectful, and adult behavior on this forum. We very nearly lost a valuable contributor because of totally unnecessary rudeness and poorly expressed disagreement with one of his postings. Turn the heat down, take a deep breath before replying to something you don't see the same way. It's really not that hard-and it's not an infringement on free speech; rather, it enhances free speech.
 

icarus

Well-known member
Yea, you can enforce it on a privately owned forum!

You post off topic subjects, it gets deleted. You engage in bad behavior, you get a warning, you persist, you get uninvited to participate in the conversation (forum) you engage in personal attack, impuning the motives if legitimate posters, you get a faster, stronger warning and a quicker disinvite.

We get that all people have strongly held beliefs beyond the scope of Sprinter info. We get that some hate (or love) the government, we get that some have pet causes that they wish to promote, or rail against. Great! The internet is a big place, with lots of room for "free speach"! For example, you have free speach rights when you go to your doctor, but getting into a pissing contest on the merits of Obamacare doens't serve your health care interest.

IMHO all this vitriol and personal attack does is drive away legitimate posters who just might hold the answer to your Sprinter question. If they are not here, we will never benefit from thier experince, insight and collected wisdom.

In recent days Sailquick has contemplated leaving (for reasons much like we are talking about here!) and if he did, or does, we would be without the benefit of his vast experince and knowledge. We may not agree with all his opinions, but certainly he is a very positive member here.

You want to rail about your pet issue, feel free, but just don't do it here!

Icarus

PS. It should be noted, that I too have participated in some off topic conversations, probably creating tension to some members over there. My reason for participating is simply because those thread are there. I would be better off if I just stayed away, and I'm sure that some members would agree with that. That said I could also point out that I might be better off if they stayed away as well?

I have seldom if ever, brought my bias to the general forum, and mostly done so with respect. The threads that come to mind are when people rail against emission control devices and suggest that they are not needed. Rather than let these opinion stand without rebut it is perfectly acceptable to comment in what has already been posted in the on topic forums.
 

icarus

Well-known member
I certainly not arguing that one shouldn't criticize any post. What I am saying is that you don't have to question ones motives. If he feels that my opinion is in error, simply rebut rebut my argument.

For example. If someone says that deleting a DPF is fine to do, it is certainly fine to rebut by saying it is illegal and has an environmental cost is certainly within bounds. The the poster then says that diesel particulate emission are no big deal, it is certainly within bound to point out the human health issues (amongst others) associated with increased emissions. To argue otherwise is simply, demonstrably false, and one can back that up with evidence if needed.

So, feel free to rebut my opinions, but do so with respect, and a cogent, rational argument. Because I say so doesn't make it true. Because you say so also doens't make it true. Build an argument.

Icarus
 

surlyoldbill

Well-known member
Some people simply do not have the social skills to avoid steering ANYTHING toward their myopic political world view. They want to show how "intelligent" they are by spouting some contrarian or fringe opinion (Left or Right), expecting admiration for their "insight". And then I think some people see these nonsense statements as a personal attack on their sensibilities, and cannot stop themselves from speaking up. Or, believe that rumors and unsupported opinions MUST be addressed before they become pop-culture "truths" (911 conspiracies, Obama born in Kenya, etc.). Thus we come to a swirling dialogue that rapidly leaves the original topic and escalates.

I sometimes get goaded into responding despite my better sense. I do like that we have the DANGER ZONE area that these discussions get sent to rather than eliminating them from the forum. And this IS a private forum, Free Speech laws do not apply. The moderators can remove any post or thread at any time. I think the're pretty damn tolerant.
 

flman

Roadrunner, Genius of Birds ALWAYS WINS! NO FAILS!
I have noticed of late a increasing amount of nasty, flaming behavior in this forum. It seems that some people when confronted with opinon not to thier liking resort to personal attack, bad language and behavior. What was once a great forum, open to ideas, helpful to many, is rapidly becoming what many other forums have become, an open sewer where respect, civility and decent behavior becomes rarer. Icarus
Pot Kettle Black! :bash:

I have been called plenty of names by Icarus, but never get my panties in a knot.

Click on Icarus> Statistics> Find all posts by Icarus. See all of Icarus's participation in the danger zone. :shifty:

Did you fail to read the warning?

The Danger Zone Don't come in here if you can't take it. I warned you.

So now you want to have it shut down because you did not heed the warning?

When you come into a forum, do not brag about what you do on the outside, as is can bite you in the arse.

Cya in the next Off topic debate. :thumbup:

And like I asked before, would you be proud as a super moderator in the solar forum, to display your behavior in the danger zone?
 

flman

Roadrunner, Genius of Birds ALWAYS WINS! NO FAILS!
You post off topic subjects, it gets deleted. You engage in bad behavior, you get a warning, you persist, you get uninvited to participate in the conversation (forum) you engage in personal attack, impuning the motives if legitimate posters, you get a faster, stronger warning and a quicker disinvite.
Hmm, I do recall Icarus calling me and other members names in the danger zone. I will never personally attack a member. But once they attack me, it is on.

Pot is still calling the kettle black.

http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=290774&postcount=655

http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=289148&postcount=612

http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=282822&postcount=296

http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=282132&postcount=247

http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=280269&postcount=205

:popcorn:
 

flman

Roadrunner, Genius of Birds ALWAYS WINS! NO FAILS!
OTOH, another forum I am in has a Political science section. A forum member must sign up for that separate, and the disclaimer is no Cry Babies.

It would be kind of interesting to see who signed up if the danger zone had the same requirement? :rolleyes:
 
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