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Old 10-11-2017, 04:22 PM   #21
Kiltym
 
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Default Re: Wiring idea for charging house batteries

I have drawn up the original westy wiring, and two options I see as viable, however one is starting to appear as the better option.

One general issue, Air Co and converter charging should not happen simultaneously. Not sure an easy way to idiot-proof this, so might just need to be something one has to pay attention to and make sure both don't run at the same time to avoid overloading the converter.


Option 1: Switch near converter and re-use existing starter cables from relay.

Issues:
- Onemanvan reports significant voltage drop.
- Have to add a relay to prevent Air Co from running via Start Battery when alternator is not running. (see: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/.../messages/9958)
- Switch is in back of van, so a bit inconvenient.


Option 2: Run new wire from converter to house batteries.

Issues:
- Have to run a cable. Unsure how to best get cable from converter to house battery? Under van? Or through internal spaces?


One general question/issue also. When AC power is applied (either by generator or shore power), both the Westy AC-DC charger and the converter DC-DC charger could be applying power to the batteries at the same time. I don't think this is a problem, but maybe someone knows something I am missing.

So, based on the above, and the drawings, it seems the new cable is the better way to go. Eliminates some of the issues of running the AirCo when it should not be because of the dc-dc charger. And provides a switch (probably near existing switch) to change between alternator or converter for charging source. Because of the dc-dc charger, no "bad states" could occur (except simultaneous running of AirCo and charger). I do not think any additional diodes or other items would need to be installed.

Any additional feedback and comments is very welcome.
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:34 PM   #22
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Default Re: Wiring idea for charging house batteries

Also, another dc-dc charger that is looking appealing to me: http://www.enerdrive.com.au/product/...rger-40a-plus/

Good things is it is fully programmable, so will work with any batteries. Most of the chargers "lock" you into one of their pre-programmed settings, which often don't actually match the batteries. Having full control over it is a big plus.

Does battery isolation, and high voltage MPPT solar controller.

With this unit can also control charging amps, so depending on size/type of battery bank it can be adjusted also.
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:59 PM   #23
OldWest
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Default Re: Wiring idea for charging house batteries

1. No AC and Charging at Same Time

I thought OneManVan replaced Kissling Relay so Meanwell converters could power air conditioner or batteries, not both?

If one does not turn on air conditioner, then no problem? So install some type of failsafe like extra cover over air conditioner on/off button? And another one over the circuit breaker, as a reminder?

2. Remote Switch

On OneManVan's lithium battery setup, he described a remote lightweight switch which then caused a heavy duty switch to activate (or something like that).

Is there something similar for your proposed setup? An electronic signal switch and the heavy duty switch in the rear?

3. Cable Runs

A..Neatest

Run cable from converter area, then underneath bathroom floor behind the metal cover panel (lots of other wires.there), then along side graywater tank/driver side body, then near battery charger to batteries.

Note: You'll see the wires in the closet run down through the floor, then behind the metal panel under the bathroom floor to get to driver side. The 120v wires run from circuit breakers, behind metal cover under bathroom floor, then to converters.

So the main wire/cable raceway is behind the metal cover. When you look under the bathroom floor (rear doors open), the metal cover is right above the tunnel (behind black tank).

In this Discus photo, he removed black tank and added the white HepVo drain to shower drain. You can see a bunch of PEX water hoses and wires behind where black tank would be (which to the right of the photo area above the tunnel are concealed.by the metal.cover).

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...8&postcount=17

B. Quick and Dirty

There is a hole in the battery compartment which runs through the fresh water tank. Run cables under vehicle and up through hole.

C..Generator Cables

Run under van and then follow generator.cables to batteries???

4. Multiple Concurrent Charging Sources

If one of the charging sources is smart and reads voltage put out by another source, may interpret as fully charged and turn off or go to another phase????

If that's the case, need way to turn off whatever extra source. For.Westy battery charger, disconnect cord or turn circuit breaker off (some outlets, like microwave, also are on same circuit).

While.driving, sun hitting solar pushes voltage to 14.4. When driving away from sun, voltage drops to 13.9-14.0 (presumably alternator only). Reading voltages off central computer console.and voltages will vary by temperature.

Maybe highest voltage charging source wins out, even if lowest amperage???

5. Safety

Need big fuses, extra strong crimps on cables, etc.

Please take lots of photos.when you start taking things apart. Thanks.

Last edited by OldWest; 10-11-2017 at 05:18 PM. Reason: Add info.
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Old 10-11-2017, 05:38 PM   #24
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Default Re: Wiring idea for charging house batteries

"I thought OneManVan replaced Kissling Relay so Meanwell converters could power air conditioner or batteries, not both?"

When his switch is connected to the start battery, theoretically the A/C could be (attempted) powered off just the start battery (even when the alternator is not running). His concern (and why he added a relay), was that if he was running the AirCo with the car running (which is fine), and then turns the car off, the AirCo will try to pull from the start battery still, with no alternator, which will create a dead start battery pretty quickly.

The Kisslinger relay prevents this, but a manual switch (alone) does not.

So the manual suggestions are ok to prevent you from turning the A/C on when his switch is on the start battery, but if the A/C is already on, then the issue appears, so the added relay cuts out the A/C when the car stops running, even though there is still power available via the start battery. Basically reproducing the function of the Kiss relay.

"Is there something similar for your proposed setup? An electronic signal switch and the heavy duty switch in the rear?"

With the running of a new cable, a new switch would be added near the existing battery switch to change between start/alternator and converter. No switch is needed or added in the rear.


Thanks for the cable runs tips, all good info!
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:08 PM   #25
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Default Re: Wiring idea for charging house batteries

I don't have the time to fully read all of these posts carefully, so pardon me if it's already in here somewhere, but here's another DC to DC Dual input charging option
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:20 PM   #26
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Default Re: Wiring idea for charging house batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
I don't have the time to fully read all of these posts carefully, so pardon me if it's already in here somewhere, but here's another DC to DC Dual input charging option
Very nice find. It actually appears to be the same exact charger as I had posted a bit above from Australia, but in the U.S, and much cheaper.... The user manuals are virtually identical. Thanks!

The 50Amp version is what I posted, but nice to see a cheaper 30A version available.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: Wiring idea for charging house batteries

I found it difficult to snake wire along the driver side - maybe an easier path would be parallel to the 'tunnel'...

1) to the rear of the wtr htr closet along the wtr lines
2) from the wtr lines through the louvers in the tunnel wall
3) remove kick panel in kitchen to pull wires up
4) along top of wtr tank to where ever...
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File Type: jpg IMG_20171011_111823 - Edited.jpg (84.3 KB, 46 views)
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:06 PM   #28
OldWest
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Default Re: Wiring idea for charging house batteries

Interesting re your photo of the fresh water tank. I think Westfalia must have changed the design a bit and made a much larger hatch door.

I think that on mine (too much storage junk there currently so didn't verify), the hatchdoor does not cover the screw inserts on the passenger side. Instead, the screw inserts are covered.by the cabinet floor, and there are three holes.directly above to access those inserts, each hole with a plastic cap (one cap now mysteriously floating somewhere in those recesses).

The screw inserts may be for NAFTA Westies for the screwed down black plastic cover with glued on foam gaskets. Each screw-in bolt came with lots of washers so a nightmare not to drop them. In addition, Airstream added the generator which added more thick battery cables so black plastic cover did not lay flat.

I just use a couple of the little bolts as such a pain to insert.

European James Cook versions may not have.those screw inserts.

The kitchen cabinet was probably installed after all the wiring was done, so easier access to run wires and stuff.

Last edited by OldWest; 10-11-2017 at 10:08 PM. Reason: Typos, info.
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:15 PM   #29
OldWest
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Default Re: Wiring idea for charging house batteries

On the gray screwed in rounded metal kickplate on bottom of kitchen cabinet, it looks like ripples from the screws. It could be the protective film which you can peel off. If not, don't know why there'd be ripples.
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:49 PM   #30
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Default Re: Wiring idea for charging house batteries

Posting an updated wiring diagram for the "run new wire" option.

Another thing I realized (and another advantage of running a new cable), is that there is no need to change the K52 relay under the seat. It can be left as-is.

When car is running, relay is engaged, dc-dc charger sees power, and starts charging. Car is turned off, relay disengaged, and dc-dc charger drops out.

This is getting pretty simply to implement, which is great.

Re: dc-dc chargers, I spoke with Kisae, and they are the same as Enerdrive in Australia. Only issue is in N. America only the 30A charger is available right now until sometime in 2018. I am interested in having at least a 40A charger available for the dc-dc, so I may order from Australia. Will keep this thread posted as I make progress.

And thanks for all the feedback and assistance.
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