Best suspension upgrades for westie

I spoke with Bilstein.

What they told me is some 2500 vans have the 12mm lower bolt, and some have the 14mm lower bolt. Seems sketchy to me that this would be accurate, but what do I know. I see no hint of a 14mm bolt in the parts diagrams for our van.

So, assuming all Westy's have the 12mm lower bolt (which may not be correct), there are no B6/HD shocks from Bilstein for our van as they have 14mm bushings for both the top and bottom. The B4, OE Bilstein, does have a 14mm upper and 12mm lower and would fit.

The Monroe "themanys" installed also have 14/12 bushings, so that is at least one other known van the same as mine.

Now I have to sell/return what I just bought, rather frustrating.

Oldwest, you have Koni's. Do you remember if your rears are the 82 2434?

The specs state the Koni are 14mm on top and bottom (http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/...Track-(Red)-Rear-Dodge-Sprinter-Sprinter-2500). So how did they fit? Something is still strange.

If I look under the van, I can visually see the top bolt is thicker then the bottom. If you are able, do you mind taking a look when you have time?

Sold and installed by Upscale Auto in 2005.

Front: Koni 87-2638 ($380 pair parts + $105 install)

Rear: Koni 82-2434 ($290 pair parts + $70 install)

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The above Koni part numbers are the same as posted on this forum for a T1N Sprinter 2500.

Rear Shocks:

The top bolt looks bigger than the bottom bolt. The shafts of the bolts are not visible (portion inside the shock bushings). I put a 21 mm socket on the top bolt/nut and a 18 mm socket on the bottom bolt/nut (inside side, closest to driveshaft; did not check other side of bolts/nuts).

Top bolt: 21 mm socket fits.
Bottom bolt: 18 mm socket fits.

This is consistent with other postings on this forum. Take a look at the Koni Install thread (photos) and AutoCamp's blog (photos):

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2839

http://eat-drink-men-women.blogspot.com/2012/07/tatyanas-broken-key-fixed.html?m=1#more


If you're in the San Diego area, why not go to El Cajon and check out AgileOffroad? You can ask them about the Fox Shox, multi-leaf springs if any for the rear, etc.

Keep us posted.

Thanks for checking!

So something is still odd then. If the 82-2434 has 14/14, yet your bolts are different based on the socket that fits, and presumably 14/12.

This photo from AutoCamp is almost what I would be curious about, but cant quite tell. You can see the small diameter on the stock shock, but cannot see the Koni to compare. Hope he doesn't mind be borrowing his photo.....

So now the question is do you have a 12mm bolt going through the 14mm bushing on the Koni. Which would imply it seems to be fine based on the years you have on them....

It could be the 14/14 description of the Koni rear shock is in error and it's really 14/12?

Would think that if there's that much play in the lower bolt and bushing, folks would have mentioned it.

Seems like most websites don't mention the size of the top and bottom bushings.

Koni USA website has no details but lists the same shocks.

http://www.koni-na.com/en-US/NorthA...ist/?t=KoniPartSearch&q=2004&m=272&mk=13&mt=1

Also, the Bilsteins yellow/blue B6 rear.shocks are also sold for T1N Sprinters by VanCompass--they don't mention any issues.

Finally, sometimes manufacturers use same inventory numbers for different parts (different countries, etc.)

I will call Koni tomorrow and verify. And have a call into Van Compass and Europarts since they both sell them as well.

Will post my findings.

Got a reply from VanCompass, he states the images are just "stock".

They would order the B6 with 14/12mm bushing for me. Not sure how, but maybe distributors have ability to have things customized per application. When I called Bilstein, they said I had to use the B4.

They also stated he would order the version for the 3500 because of the van weight. He said they are the same shock dimensionally, but 3500 shock has more damping. From the specs I see online, they are not dimensionally the same however for the single vs dual rear wheel.

So it's information, but it doesn't help me much in uncovering the mystery.

Also got a message from someone with a 2500 who install the 167161 B6 shocks and said he noticed nothing strange. But nothing specific about whether he as a 14mm bolt or not... I will try to confirm.

Koni update on their 82-2434. From a phone call to Koni.

Top is 14.55
Bottom is 12.15

So the Koni fit fine, which makes sense since so many people have installed them.

So this is leading me to believe further, the B6 Bilstein are not OK for our van, even though there are some reports of people installing them.

Waiting to hear back from Europarts about the B6 Bilstein, and will follow up again.

Mark,

FWIW... I upgraded my suspension all the way around about 8 months back... went with Koni's front and rear together with Sumo (Solo) Springs front and rear (see part#'s below). Made a huge difference in the handling.

The Koni's are sold by several Sprinter after market stores for the 2500 series. I got everything from sprinterupgrades.com. Dealt with Mark Oland, who was very helpful. At that time the total cost in parts came out to around $1100. I didn't both with alignment when I got everything installed and hasn't been an issue.

Sumo Spring "Solo" Versions

SSF-401-54 - Front
Solo SSR-325-47 - Rear

Thanks for the input, but $1100 is way out of the budget right now. But it sounds like a good upgrade.

We have the Roadmaster active suspension installed, but stock shocks, and would like to eliminate a bit more of the rear end roll we have at times. May have to go with the Koni in the back, since the Bilstein idea is starting to fade unfortunately. I am not sure the Monroe would be a big upgrade over stock (but one Westy owner stated it was a big improvement, but don't know the condition of their original shocks), whereas the Koni and Fox (and I thought Bilstein) would be.

May want to check AgileOffRoad re price of their Fox Shox. They may not be much more than Konis.

Could also ask them priority of most bang for bucks. From various postings, maybe go for Fox Shox in rear and then Sumo Solos in front. If front struts are worn, then Konis in front.

Having added various upgrades over time, there may be diminishing returns as each enhancement upgrade is added.

Various postings on the Fox Shox suggest $130 to $150 each for the regular kind and $300 each for the external reservoir one.

The adjustable external reservoir costs more but may dampen less at full whatever than the IFP (Independent Floating Piston?) one which looks like a regular shock (need to ask AgileOffRoad). Also, if always have a full load (like a campervan) and little offroad travel, the adjustable external reservoir might not add much value.

And maybe take advantage of your time in the San Diego area and see if you can stop by Europarts-SD.com and look at the various shocks in person as to (a) dimensions (compressed and extended lengths, eyebolts), (b) differences in dampening, and (c) differences between roof heights/cab chassis variations.

From another Westy owner who installed Bilstein shocks/struts.

Alexander178 said:

The numbers I have are:
22 214768 (front)
BNE 6452 BE (rear)

Click to expand...

Thanks!

Looks like you used the "super high ceiling" version in the front, which is good to know as it was very unclear from Bilstein which would be correct.

And the rear, is likely the older/previous part # for their B4 shock: 19-064529

I will add the above to the suspension thread.

Received the following from Europarts regarding the two B6 Bilstein shocks currently available (one states 3500 and one states 2500) (rear).

"Sorry for the delay. We now have both of these shocks back in stock.

Both of them have mounting eyes at the top and bottom which will receive a 14mm thru-bolt.
167161 is just longer than the other one."

So, as best I know, there are no B6 Bilsteins that will fit the 2500 van. Only the B4.

I have asked Europarts about using a reducer in the bushing to reduce the diameter from 14mm to 12mm, and am waiting for a reply. Not sure if using a reducer is safe or not..... If I hadn't got such a cheap price on the B6 I would probably move on and just return them. Something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/IKON-KONI-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

coloradobjj said:

I"m looking for any info on what I need to do to make my westie handle better. I"m thinking about the Roadmaster active suspension but not sure if I will need shocks as well. I currently have stock suspension and shocks on a van with under 30k. Any good info or experiences out there?
Below is what I have seen, looking for anything to help narrow it down, whats the most bang for my buck?
7. Suspension Mods
a. Koni Shocks
b. Heavier Rear Anti-Sway Bar (UpscaleAuto.com)
c. SteerSafe (front steering dampener)
d. Rear Airbags (Sports-Rite?)
e. Supplemental Rear Leaf Springs

thanks

Click to expand...

Check out OHV.com - lift kits coming soon.

Continuing my quest to confirm or try to get the 24-167161 shocks to fit our van.

The issue of the 14/14 holes can be solved with a sleeve insert to change the hole from 14mm to 12mm. Not a huge issue.

Now, the specs on these shocks are 21.65" uncompressed and 14.4" compressed.

Most 2500 shocks are ~20-21"/13". So I have some concern about bottoming out. The Koni, KYB, Monroe, and B4 Bilstein are all about these measurements.

However, I found this thread: https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2603&page=3 which has some information about shock lengths.

It seems, the OEM Sachs are 21.5"/13.8" based on one post. So that seems a bit closer to the B6 Bilstein. There is also information on that thread about why other shocks are ~20-21". Because of a change to 16" wheels for US market.

I also found the attached image. Which shows 2 sachs (OE) shock's for our vans. I looked for a stamp/number on mine, and unfortunately cannot find it on either shock. So I have no way to confirm 100% without removing a shock and measuring.

I am posting here for others as I continue my research.

One sure would think there would be a bit more precise engineering with these things, but seeing as 5 shocks for the 2500 are all varied, there seems to be quite some leeway.

An interesting article from GoWesty.com re Bilsteins versus Fox. While not directly applicable as shocks reviewed are for VWs, interesting comments re longevity, washboard roads, and ideal target for dampening.

http://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=177

That's not what our 3500 Sprinter motor home damping looks like. The GoWesty folks think 1/2 of critical damping is ideal. Not sure is that's really ideal. But that's so far off base from a stock 3500 Sprinter motor home.

Critical damping has damping of 1.0. Half of critical is then 0.5. Cars are usually designed for damping of 0.2. My '07 3500 Navion has damping of less than 0.1. See green plot. The oscillations goes on for about 4 wavelengths. Walk inside and the chassis rocks. Side winds easily move the vehicle around. That's all because the shocks are too weak.

I now have Koni red struts adjusted to max damping up front and Fox shocks adjusted by Agile Off Road in the rear. The vehicle damping is now close to 0.2.



BTW, a couple of weeks ago I installed Koni reds in my VW Westfalia. I like the adjust-ability.

For Kiltym re different length shocks--GoWesty.com had an article re different height VWs using the same length shock:

http://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=159

Not much discussion about full or partial replacement airbag systems--seem to be mostly for dual rear wheels although there may be versions for single rear wheel. Here's a review of the VB Air Suspension system on a dual rear wheel Winnebago Navion/View:

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=643868#post643868

Other threads (including Glide-Rite):

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37788&highlight=Vb+air+suspension

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52324&highlight=Vb+air+suspension

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35251&highlight=Vb+air+suspension

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43557&highlight=Vb+air+suspension

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30342&highlight=Vb+air+suspension

NOTE: Different supplemental air bag add-ons may deform the Sprinter unibody structure unless reinforcement is made. These supplemental air bags are not as extensive as the VB Air Suspension, Glide-Rite, or Kelderman systems.