mercedes sprinter 312d diesel problems

sandy2002

New member
:thinking: when driving my mercedes sprinter drives perfect until it comes to steep hills then cuts out completely after 10 seconds it starts sometimes it will stop a number of times running perfect on flat changed desel filter makes no difference can not see any air in pipes going to fuel pump any ideas please:thinking:
 

Boater

New member
Any chance of some punctuation so I can figure out what the symptoms are?

Could it be related to the fuel pickup in the tank?
How does it cut out, does it lose revs first and stall or just stop suddenly like a computer or electrical cut out?
How is the temperature gauge? Do you get any warning lights when it cuts out?
 

plcpitt

Member
This forum is a good source for information by using the search function.

Another option is to call Doktor A (Andy Bittenbinder), the authority on Sprinters based on many threads in this forum (412-366-6165).

We are new to the Sprinter family and have not had any issues yet but are fortunate enough to live two miles from Dr. A if / when we begin to have problems.

Good luck.
 

Boater

New member
Unfortunately the engine used in the 312D was never available in a US Sprinter so Dr A's knowledge of them may be limited, on the other hand the problem might be something common to any diesel engine, and a version of it it was used in cars in the US.

My gut feeling though, is that someone in the UK will know the answer, but maybe not me!
 

sandy2002

New member
sprinter van cuts out on hills

mercedes sprinter van s reg
drives perfect on flat, but cuts out on hills
any ideas please:frown:
 

220629

Well-known member
Re: sprinter van cuts out on hills

What do you mean by "cuts out". Do you mean that the engine stops running or do experience a reduced power or LHM Limp Home Mode situation that slows you down?

If power reduces and the engine keeps running, often the problems which surface during long climbs trace to leaks in the charge air system. The hoses would be my first thing to check. Sometimes air leaks can be difficult to find so look carefully at the hoses for signs of oil residue. vic
 

sailquik

Well-known member
Re: sprinter van cuts out on hills

Also, are you just putting your Sprinter in "D" and letting it upshift automatically to 5th gear (OVERDRIVE 0.83:1) and then heading up a hill, hoping it will downshift automatically to 4th gear on it's own?
Doing this runs the % engine load to 100%....the fueling rate to the maximum possible (> 3X what is needed @ half throttle)....and the turbo boost to the maximum possible (> 20.5 PSIG/ > 35.0 PSIA).
How many RPMs are you running when it cuts out? <2400......>2800.....~3200 where your Sprinter makes it most efficient and maximum power?
Might try manually downshifting to 4th gear as you start up the hill and make sure the RPMs are up in the 2800-3200 range.
This will reduce the % engine LOD.....fueling rate....and turbo boost pressure. If this prevents the engine from faulting out/shutting off, then you need to have the diagnostics run to determine which system has the fault and which sensor is going out of range.
There are many sensors on your engine that must stay in a range for a given % engine load and RPM.
If any of these sensors report to the ECM as "out of range" or implausible, the ECM will either shut your engine off completely, or put you in a reduced power state (Limp Home Mode).
Best thing to do is find someone with the correct diagnostic tool and see what codes are stored.
Each time it shuts down, there will most likely be a code stored and the codes can be traced to particular sensors or systems where the problem lies.
As suggested, a high pressure turbo boost leak (cracked turbo resonator, cracked or split hose, loose hose clamp at a joint) is one of the most common failure modes.
I had a 2006 Dodge T1N (OM-647 engine) that would simply go "POP" and shut off. Did a lot of diagnostics, changed the ECM (PCM in a Dodge) but never really solved the problem. Most of the parts changed out were covered by the warranty (even @ ~ 85 K miles).
Hope this helps,
Roger
 

sandy2002

New member
Re: sprinter van cuts out on hills

stops completely up hills
have noticed air going back through return when going up hill
 

sandy2002

New member
have now found air going back through return when going up hills then stops completely any help would be great thanks:cheers:
 

icarus

Well-known member
Re: sprinter van cuts out on hills

Sounds like you have a fuel line leak. Is this an early T-1N by chance?

If it is drawing air in up hill attitude I would look for a bad fuel line.

Icarus
 

Dingo

New member
I would suggest dropping the fuel tank & removing the lock ring that holds the sender in place .

Remove sender assy & dismantle . Little tabs hold white parts together . prise open carefully .

I have found several early sprinters with a mat of fibres & general rubbish collected in base around pick up pipe . Mine included ( not amused )

With the sender assy apart , look for cracks in lift pipe / strainer

I would also replace the lift pipe from the sender assy to the filter head with nylon pipe from a local hydraulics place , also get rubber petrol pipe & "O" clips to clamp rubber to steel outlet , also buy a couple of hose tail barbs that fgit the nylon pipe .

Cut off the barb section & force into the nylon hose at the fuel tank end only . Fit piece of rubber hose to steel outlet & use O clip ( i use two set 90° apart to ensure a complete seal , push nylon pipe with inserted barb into other end & O clip again . Cut filter end cleanly & simply push into black fitting

The OM602 ( 312 / 412 engine ) will cope with a certain amount of air in the system & self bleed continuously , but the extra fuel required to climb a hill could just not enough . However I would expect it to loose power rather than cut out completely .

Personally i would look at rubbish in fuel tank , have even found polythene bags in one as well as the fibre rubbish moving & cutting off fuel supply . when engine stops , vacuum in pipe ends & rubbish moves off until pulled back again . Fuel return also enters the white sender assy . & could keep any rubbish moving round the lift pipe until it goes uphill . Sounds daft , but trust me , been there , got the T shirt , towed the damn thing in & stripped it

GOOD LUCK & Welcome
 

sandy2002

New member
a diesel mechanic advised me today to have a 5 gallon drum next to passenger seat, with the feed pipe and return pipe running from filter to tank, on tests still stopping on steep hills second gear hills.
I am wondering could it be fuel pump seals as the lift pump is build into the fuel pump on the early 312 sprinters
ANY HELP PLEASE :frown:
 

Boater

New member
Well my first thoughts were based on one of Dingos earlier write ups....

A clean drum of clean diesel is a good way to rule out a bunch of problems at the tank end but it is kind of jury rigged, did you use clear hoses into the jerry can so you could check they weren't drawing air when going uphill?
How does the clear section to the fuel pump look? mine is kind of yellowed with age and it takes some looking to see bubbles going through it, I ask because the fuel filter is the next place I would be looking. Change it for a new one of a decent make (Mann or Hengst or Merc but that will be either Mann or Hengst with a MB badge on from what I can tell) and be careful to use the new o-rings that come with it and take care not to damage them refitting it. The pipes in and out of the filter are decidedly dicey, the metal retainer does not actually clamp them into the filter housing so they depend on the plastic end fittings being intact (check for damage) and the o-rings. If someone has changed the o-rings for inferior ones (good o-rings are supplied individually wrapped and lightly lubricated, dry o-rings out of bulk boxes are unreliable particularly in diesel lines) it may just be these (merc dealer can supply).

You are correct about there being no lift pump on these, the distributor pump does all the work and it doesn't like sucking just air (as Dingo says it will self bleed air bubbles from fuel) and uses the leak off fuel for lubrication so running it dry can damage the seals; however I would expect seal damage to affect it all the time not just on hills. If you end up with a section of pipe with no fuel in at all it will take a good few seconds of cranking to get the van started.

You still didn't really explain if the revs drop over a few seconds or if it just cuts out like flicking a switch. I would also have to wonder if there is anything loose in the engine bay near the pump that could move when you hit a steep hill, and/or of the nut that holds the wire on the fuel solenoid is loose. I'm basically wondering if you could be getting a short (or disconnect) which causes the solenoid to close temporarily.

In fact, thinking about completing the circuit, crawl under the passenger side (I would start behind the front wheel but looking forward) and look for where the gearbox bellhousing is bolted to the back of the engine block. At one of the top bolts sort of behind the oil cooler, there is a braided earth wire which runs across to a stud on the chassis box girder. Have a look at the state of this braided wire, does it look frayed or strained? The engine and gearbox mounts have rubber blocks to damp vibration, it is possible that climbing steep hills they move backwards slightly and strain this wire - if some of the braids are damaged you will be getting a poor earth from the engine back through the chassis to the battery, it might not completely break the circuit, but it just has to increase resistance enough that the solenoid is not held open (or some other engine electronics fails). You can get replacement earth braids in Halfords, it does no harm to double them up just to be sure.

Good luck

Jim
 

Boater

New member
Is this an early T-1N by chance?
Yep, non-cdi, non-NAFTA version!
'S reg' means registered between Aug '98 and Feb '99. :bounce:

Also, are you just putting your Sprinter in "D" and letting it upshift automatically to 5th gear (OVERDRIVE 0.83:1) and then heading up a hill, hoping it will downshift automatically to 4th gear on it's own?
Probably manual not automatic. Later he mentions 2nd gear hills implying he is shifting manually, and using 2nd when he has problems (that was after you posted).

Not so many sensors on these old engines but as you say it could be any of them.... :idunno:
 

Dingo

New member
Boater , rather than buy earth straps from Halfords , find a local welding supplier & get them to make an suitable length cable & terminate for you , Far heavier grade cable , far more supple , so less likely to break due to flexing .

Um sandy2002 just remembered this point , under the battery tray is a plastic insulation section that acts like a funnel trapping water & causing shorts , make sure it is dry & clean in there as well .

Right it is Friday & i'm away for a beer or 30 any one want to pay for me ????????:cheers:
 

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