Considering building out a 118 T1N for part time stealth camping

RJV

Active member
My advice to all first time prospective buyers: If you can't confirm that most of the usual suspects under the hood have recently been replaced and/or you can't afford to put $2-5K into getting the van mechanically sound, I wouldn't recommend anyone buying any T1N, especially if a camper build is your goal. If you don't know what the usual suspects are/have no idea what you're looking, listening, and feeling for--I wouldn't recommend anyone buying any T1N. These vans are at best about 14 years old. Low mileage is nice but age of components now plays a bigger role. This one in particular is not one that I would consider "low" mileage. More than anything I would not put any money into a camper build until I was 100% certain that the mechanical systems would be very unlikely to let me down. There have been a ton of recent posts by members that have purchased T1Ns based on mileage and aesthetics, spent thousands on a camper build before putting any significant mileage on the van, only to end needing thousands more in repairs 300 miles into their "maiden voyage". I don't claim to know what I'm talking about. I bought my first T1N based on mileage and aesthetics and I got extremely lucky, though I did put about $3K into the mechanicals in the first year. Luckily when I had issues I was in Denver--thank you Linden Engineering. My 2nd T1N I was not so lucky with, and while I'm still happy with the price I paid for it I've put in about $5K in parts, hundreds of research hours, and at least a hundred hours of my own work to to get it running to my specifications. At this point, we should all look at T1Ns as a labor of love, a hobby, or disposable. If you can't check any of those boxes, you're rolling the dice and betting whatever the sticker price is. Good Luck.
 
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hepcat

Just an old guy...
My advice to all first time prospective buyers: If you can't confirm that most of the usual suspects under the hood have recently been replaced and/or you can't afford to put $2-5K into getting the van mechanically sound, I wouldn't recommend anyone buying any T1N, especially if a camper build is your goal. ...

... At this point, we should all look at T1Ns as a labor of love, a hobby, or disposable. If you can't check any of those boxes, you're rolling the dice and betting whatever the sticker price is. Good Luck.
And yet, with NC3V Class B motorhomes still running in the $80k range used, $10k for a nice T1N even with another $5k in parts and labor still seems to look like a pretty good deal, doesn't it? I can put a LOT of money into my T1N before I get anywhere near what I'd have had into an NCV3. And worse yet, it appears that the NCV3 vans are as big (or bigger) money pits than the T1Ns.
 
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Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
I think the key point here is to budget $3k on parts updates and price a used van accordingly.

In two years and 40,000 miles I’ve installed a starter motor, replaced all the fluids, filters, the radiator, fan and clutch, belt, pulleys, tensioner, cold-side induction hoses, two injector seals, five glow plugs and repaired the module, four tires, door lock wiring repairs, sanded/polished the head lamps, new low beams, new windshield and rust repair to frame, three roller arms on the sliding door, replaced the inner slider handle, fixed the bent latch, washed the rust from the headliner with CLR, and resealed three leaking roof seams.

I’m planning to do brakes, and maybe the shocks and sway-bar bushings next spring.

Oh, and I’ve built a bed platform, cargo drawer, three hammocks, re-anchored the 2nd row bench, added a backup camera, a rear step, and a 5-up pivoting bike rack. And of course my daughter painted baby dragons on the front fenders.

But now it’s replaced our 2006 Dodge Grand Caravan as my daily driver (kids like the headroom and it gets equal fuel milage), and I’ve been to the coast and back twice this summer - just shy of 10k miles since May, and I would hop in it tomorrow and go anywhere, but being able to say that with confidence has taken significant time and vigilance, and a bit of luck.

Good luck to you, too! :cheers:

-dave
 
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ions82

Member
If you can't check any of those boxes, you're rolling the dice and betting whatever the sticker price is. Good Luck.
I'm another new owner who blindly gambled on a used T1N. I didn't realize what a potential can of worms these things can be. I bought a retired FedEx van with a bunch of miles (333K). Not a looker. I bought it without even driving it, but the seller had just driven it around 120 miles. As it turns out, FedEx does a pretty decent job of maintaining their corporate-owned vehicles. In the end, I will still have put a couple grand into various repairs (tires, rear diff, FedEx ECU mods...)

If I had it to do over, I probably still would get an old Sprinter. For my budget, there really isn't much else that has as much cargo space and is as efficient. There are lots of people talking about Sprinter problems on this forum, but there are WAY more of them out there still driving around. I'm happy that my dumb luck delivered me a solid van to start with. Mileage can be deceiving. I'd rather have lots of well-maintained miles than fewer miles of neglect.
 

220629

Well-known member
... These vans are at best about 14 years old. ...
I've been adding my warning about the aging T1N's for some time now. Good job outlining the reality. :thumbup:

... I'd rather have lots of well-maintained miles than fewer miles of neglect.
Low miles on trucks as old as the T1N's most often means that they have been sitting unused for periods of time. Periods of non use can take their toll on a vehicle too.

T1N's are generally not a good idea for anyone who prefers or plans on dealership maintenance.

:cheers: vic
 

hepcat

Just an old guy...
Low miles on trucks as old as the T1N's most often means that they have been sitting unused for periods of time. Periods of non use can take their toll on a vehicle too.

T1N's are generally not a good idea for anyone who prefers or plans on dealership maintenance.

:cheers: vic
Old, low mileage vehicles can experience "parking lot rot" as the seals dry out from disuse.

While your advice is sound, I'd like to point out that it's sound for ALL old vans... believe me, having a '95 e250 extended as a Class B motorhome for the past four years was no picnic either. While it was totally reliable, it was only because I dropped $5k into it when I bought it as well to make it so. Shop labor rates for marque houses are upwards of $100/hour now. Parts, while domestics may be cheaper, aren't THAT much cheaper, and believe me a 351W or even the Triton and Vortec engines can be nightmares to work on. The 2.7L I-5 is, even by diesel standards, pretty straight-forward.

I'm fortunate in that I have an independent mechanic who is both a good friend, AND a diesel guy with a dynomometer in his shop. I'm also fortunate in that most of the "usual suspects" in the T1N were taken care of immediately before I bought mine to the tune of nearly $5k, including the installation of a new turbo, so I am doubly fortunate. I've put about 6k miles on mine since April, and I'm waiting for the first oil sample analysis to be returned as I write.

I confess that after owning three Ford e-series vans over the years and driving several Chevy and Ford vans, that I'm quite impressed with everything about the T1N. I wish that the NCV3s were as simple and stright-forward mechanically. I'm NOT certain that I'll ever consider AN NCV3 seriously though.
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
I was put off by the potential liability of DPF-related failures in the NCV3. The prospect of a tuning issue taking out the DPF, and being required to run it hard through the periodic regen cycles are still not appealing... we do a fair number of short trips and that would be hard on a DPF system. That said, I do like the NCV3’s stance and styling, and the more modern all-CANBUS diagnostics. Dimensionally we wanted to be nimble and fit a standard parking stall, so a 144” 2500 would have suited us fine, but...

-dave
 

stirlings

New member
Hey all,
Really appreciate the advice and input on the thread! I feel very welcomed into this community!
I'm still on the fence about it, considering that yes, a piedmont red sprinter isn't all that "stealthy".
But do I actually care about that? Not so much.
I'm young and caught in a stressful job and would like to just hit the road and travel while I still can.
My dad has been a Mercedes Mechanic for 40 years and is questioning if I really want to make this jump because of the expenses associated with a vehicle of this age, he would be able to lend a hand and help with repairs though.
It would be a huge investment on my part but I would like to save as much of my paychecks as I can if I do like the idea of full timing it.
 
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stirlings

New member
I'm curious if any insulation (for sound and/or temperature) was added before the panels were installed. That's a pretty small vehicle. It would be tight for more than one person. I'm glad to have my gigantic 158" high roof. I don't mind taking up two parking spaces :smirk:
It apparently has R-3 Installed in side panels
 

Axiom

Mike from Florida Van Man
Hey all,
Really appreciate the advice and input on the thread! I feel very welcomed into this community!
I'm still on the fence about it, considering that yes, a piedmont red sprinter isn't all that "stealthy".
Well the red is certainly a lot prettier than "AC Company White" :smirk: I'm 20 myself working on a project Sprinter so i can hopefully hit the road soon. Granted the white is stealthier and keeps it cooler in Florida but everyone knows the white van stereotype. Personally never had any issues camping anywhere in Florida (never in residential areas, a couple of times at the rest area on the turnpike, 24 hr walmarts work really well too!
 

Patrick of M

2005 T1N 2500 (NA spec)
Speaking of Walmarts, since anyone can sleep overnight at a Walmart, it has probably taken the pressure of police forces to enforce no overnighting in other areas. It also takes the pressure of me, if (and it has never happened) I am disturbed by police or security in the night, worse case I drive to the next Walmart, or truck stop (where overnighting has always been allowed, space permitting...but ooof the fumes and noise....less so now with all the APUs).
 

vanski

If it’s winter, I’m probably skiing..
Hey Sterling.. I’m in the area with a Star C3 scanner if you want me to take a look at this or other t1n (pre-2007) sprinters. I’ve helped many folks in the area with pre purchase inspections. Also, I have a beautiful arctic white 140 tall boy (no camper build) which I’ve been prepping for sale which includes going through the common failure points. 154k miles, so just barely broken in. No Black Death, cooling system has been gone through including flushing/ changing out the coolant, SERP belt, belt tensioner, idler pulleys, new viscous fan clutch. No outside body rust as it was always driven in Ca. Fresh oil change. Full transmission flush/fill including cooler. New cabin air filter. New engine air filter. Rear diff flush/fill. New tires. Working diesel fired heater booster. Fully detailed. All the vent blades are intact and working. Wheels are even in good shape. More expensive than the one you’re looking at considering the lower mileage and all the work I’m putting into it. I have references for previous T1ns I’ve sold folks; all happy as clams. I also have references for mechanical work, diesel fired heater trouble shooting and kit installations, and battery system installations including LiFePo4 banks with climate control and solar and battery protection systems.

Anyhow, more than happy to show you the one I have or inspect another vehicle since we're in the same neighborhood.. good luck with your purchase. You’ll never regret your decision to invest in a more flexible and more grounded lifestyle in a camper van!
 
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stirlings

New member
Hey thanks for the input and I appreciate the offer!
I'll send you a PM about details on that tall boy you're prepping.
 

vanski

If it’s winter, I’m probably skiing..
Cool.. Still working/putting my stamp on it, but it'll be a great launch pad for someone either needing a reliable work truck or camper build.. Forgot to mention it's a 2004.. t21 recall completed with newly installed instrument cluster. If you end up looking at other 2004s make sure the IC was replaced as part of the recall as many dealers will release the vehicle with only the firmware update. Most 2005s and I believe all 2006s don't fall under this requirement.
 

Gabe Athouse

New member
here is one I have been looking at.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/d/santa-rosa-mercedes-sprinter/6965269673.html
Any more experienced Sprinter enthusiasts want to put their 2 cents in?
I'm considering for the evening and I'll be making a decision by tomorrow.
My 2c is never build a camper on a short roof, been there, done that. There’s no advantage to the low roof. And why a 118? Get a 140. Mileage is same, easy to drive, park, and has WAY more room inside. My first camper was a 140 low roof. Next was a 158 hi roof dually, it feels too big. New one is a 144 high roof srw . Hopefully just right. There’s a reason why they cost the most.
If full timing is even mentioned, then DO NOT buy a low roof please! You will regret it.
 
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vanski

If it’s winter, I’m probably skiing..
I agree with Gabe, although I do have a 118 shorty as well which I plan on making into a 4x4 world overlander 'man van' in years to come (hats of to MWD for showing a DIY method of doing the 4x4 conversion). I'll have the box truck for needed extra space while on my ski adventures and with the lady and dogs.
 

stirlings

New member
I'm realizing the availability is a little bit more than I originally anticipated and I'll be on the lookout for a 140" Hi Roof.
If I feel it's too big of an investment I'll investigate the alternatives a little more thoroughly.
My first car was a 1985 300 SD and that car was tough as nails and easy to operate and maintain, IMO the T1N represents the last of the great Mercedes Diesels.
 

Patrick of M

2005 T1N 2500 (NA spec)
I think the North American 2014-15 4 cyl diesel Sprinter is a comparable beast, though it may be a bit early to tell. Dennis seems to think so, which says a fair amount. All the fear about urea and forced regens etc will start to diminish as the systems advance themselves.
The early days of fuel injection were so troublesome I only drove mechanical injection engines, actually until this Sprinter (a couple of throttle body injection systems but that is pretty much a carb).
 

vanski

If it’s winter, I’m probably skiing..
.., IMO the T1N represents the last of the great Mercedes Diesels.
Interested in what pops thinks of this opinion.?.? I agree, but I'm kind of a T1Nphyte.

And btw... the fuel delivery system and EGRs are a total pain in pre 2004.. best to go with 2004-2006. 2006 being the best with a revised crank key revision, but as long as the crank wheel bolt is kept torqued-up on pre 2006 I don't really see a huge value. Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance...
 

vanski

If it’s winter, I’m probably skiing..
I think the North American 2014-15 4 cyl diesel Sprinter is a comparable beast, though it may be a bit early to tell. Dennis seems to think so, which says a fair amount. All the fear about urea and forced regens etc will start to diminish as the systems advance themselves.
The early days of fuel injection were so troublesome I only drove mechanical injection engines, actually until this Sprinter (a couple of throttle body injection systems but that is pretty much a carb).
I know a guy who works on a lot of 4 bangers who is seeing a lot issues now.. i guess there's boost pressure (or is it vacuum??) which gets routed to the water pump for some reason??? I really don't know the details but when I've been visiting him lately to get t1n parts he's always working on another 2014 4 cylinder complaining about boost leaks.
 
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