The latest from Westfalia . . .

Howdy All -

The NCV3 style James Cook stays pretty much the same as it has been (not as good as the T1N design, for my money), but Westfalia keeps coming up with interesting designs for other platforms.

Check out the following:

- http://www.westfalia-van.de/en/models/james-cook.html?no_cache=1 - NCV3 James Cook

- http://www.westfalia-van.de/en/models/sven-hedin.html - NCV3 Sven Hedin - basically a T1N design James Cook in an ultra high roof (standard from Mercedes, designed and built by Westfalia) mid length Sprinter - notice the new solution for the upper bunk

- http://www.westfalia-van.de/en/models/michelangelo.html - Michaelangelo - somewhat like a classic VW Westfalia pop top on a Fiat chassis

- http://www.westfalia-van.de/en/models/westvan.html - WestVan - in US parlance, a Class C on a Ford Transit chassis

- http://www.westfalia-van.de/en/models/big-nugget-xl.html?no_cache=1 - Big Nugget XL - a different take on the NCV3 James Cook in a Ford Transit - notice a different solution for the upper bunk

- http://www.westfalia-van.de/en/models/viano-marco-polo.html?no_cache=1 - Viano Marco Polo - somewhat like a classic VW Westfalia pop top on a small Mercedes Viano chassis

- http://www.westfalia-van.de/en/models/ford-transit-nugget.html?no_cache=1 - Ford Transit Nugget - a shortened Big Nugget XL with either a pop top of a hardtop - has a slide backward upper bank like the James Cooks

- http://www.westfalia-van.de/en/models/ford-transit-euroline.html?no_cache=1 - Ford Transit Euroline - a passenger van with some camping tricks

- http://www.westfalia-van.de/en/models/opel-vivaro-life.html?no_cache=1 - Opel Vivaro Life - another passenger van with some camping tricks - this time in an Opel Vivaro van

Enjoy (but try not to get too discouraged that we won't be seeing any of these any time soon . . . ),

Zach

I love to see a NCV3 in person. Great designs! Too bad there isn't the demand for these kinds of vehicles in the US. Thanks Zach. I enjoyed seeing these designs.

Thanks Zach and really interesting changes on the Sven Hedin. I didn't understand the layout until I opened the panoramic files.

The new bathroom area is divided so that the toilet and sink are on the driver's side, but the shower pan extends to the middle and a new closet door that opens facing that area. (It is no longer facing forward.) With the doors closed, you have a straight corridor that will let you go out the back door. This seems pretty useful to me.

I would think that getting into the bathroom might be a little awkward since it appears you have to swing the door 180 deg to do so. Once in, you lock it at 90 deg from its original position and you've "walled off" the back part of the van.

They have also widened the corridor to the kitchen and made the rear head restraint more durable. Good stuff.

Do you know if this van uses the independent rear suspension like the James Cook? Apparently it is a custom setup just for this application!

Ted

tfrazie said:

I love to see a NCV3 in person. Great designs! Too bad there isn't the demand for these kinds of vehicles in the US. Thanks Zach. I enjoyed seeing these designs.

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Hey Tim -

I would also like to see an NCV3 James Cook in person. And I agree that it's a shame we currently can't get these many Westfalia designs here in the US!

I am not a big fan of the move towards more of a pullman style kitchen, though, and I find the lower bunk on the NCV3 James Cook very fussy (even more so than the T1N James Cook!).

I still theorize that the NCV3 James Cook design was created at least in part as an answer to requests from the US market - and I think many of the resulting changes were a step backwards from what was a superior design.

Zach

grozier said:

Thanks Zach and really interesting changes on the Sven Hedin.

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Hey Ted,

Great to hear from you.

grozier said:

I didn't understand the layout until I opened the panoramic files.

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It's too bad Westfalia doesn't always have clear layout diagrams and/or better still images for all of the models. I agree that you have to hunt to get a full grasp of what the interiors of these vehicles offer.

grozier said:

The new bathroom area is divided so that the toilet and sink are on the driver's side, but the shower pan extends to the middle and a new closet door that opens facing that area. (It is no longer facing forward.) With the doors closed, you have a straight corridor that will let you go out the back door. This seems pretty useful to me.

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The corridor to let you out the back does seem like it could be a nice feature. And by eliminating the "step up" design between functional areas they keep you at the level with the rear doors - but at the expense of the under kitchen and bathroom storage.

grozier said:

I would think that getting into the bathroom might be a little awkward since it appears you have to swing the door 180 deg to do so. Once in, you lock it at 90 deg from its original position and you've "walled off" the back part of the van.

They have also widened the corridor to the kitchen and made the rear head restraint more durable. Good stuff.

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Widening the corridor to the kitchen is a very good thing. Deb and I joke that the corridor to the kitchen is the "place where one should never stand" and yet it is where every individual seems to want to park themselves when they first experience the James Cook! Folks learn pretty quickly, though, that standing there makes it impossible for anyone to move from any functional area to any other functional area, though!

grozier said:

Do you know if this van uses the independent rear suspension like the James Cook? Apparently it is a custom setup just for this application!

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This is an interesting question and one that I have no awareness of. Are you saying that the NCV3 James Cook has a unique independent rear suspension? If that is true it would not surprise me if the Sven Hedin also uses this same suspension. I would expect it to be easy enough to bolt onto any Sprinter!

grozier said:

Ted

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Zach

Zach Woods said:

This is an interesting question and one that I have no awareness of. Are you saying that the NCV3 James Cook has a unique independent rear suspension? If that is true it would not surprise me if the Sven Hedin also uses this same suspension. I would expect it to be easy enough to bolt onto any Sprinter!

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Not sure which models have it, but it sounds pretty complex -- a different floor pan and frame section entirely! See the second header at here: http://media.daimler.com/dcmedia/0-921-656617-1-824610-1-0-0-0-0-0-11702-656174-0-1-0-0-0-0-0.html

Ted

grozier said:

Not sure which models have it, but it sounds pretty complex -- a different floor pan and frame section entirely! See the second header at here: http://media.daimler.com/dcmedia/0-921-656617-1-824610-1-0-0-0-0-0-11702-656174-0-1-0-0-0-0-0.html

Ted

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Hi Ted -

Very interesting!

I don't mean to be argumentative, but what do you see that connects the "low frame" Sprinter to the James Cook? Is this mentioned on the Westfalia site?

When I look at the NCV3 James Cook I see a Sprinter James Cook that looks very similar to the average Sprinter in terms of body to ground clearance / height.

There is some evidence that the Sprinters in Europe actually have a lower ride height in standard form than the US / NAFTA Sprinters. See here for brief mention of this: https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8981&page=2. Pay particular attention to posts 7, 8, and 9.

Zach

Zach Woods said:

I don't mean to be argumentative, but what do you see that connects the "low frame" Sprinter to the James Cook? Is this mentioned on the Westfalia site?

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Ted's right. I remember reading where a lower subframe, I think at the rear of the chassis, was used to provide more interior room. I don't see it mentioned on your link, Zach. But I know I've seen it...

Pat

Riptide said:

Ted's right. I remember reading where a lower subframe, I think at the rear of the chassis, was used to provide more interior room. I don't see it mentioned on your link, Zach. But I know I've seen it...

Pat

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Hi Pat -

That would fit with the lower profile of the NCV3 style fibreglass roof. I always assumed that they were able to achieve a lower high top height by eliminating the steps up into the kitchen and then the bath but maybe there is more to it than that.

At the time of the NCV3 Sprinters and James Cooks development Westfalia was still owned by Mercedes so it would make sense that they were one of the first to employ any new lower suspension designs.

Zach

First paragraph, last sentence...

http://www.westfalia.org/?q=node/35

I can't find the other stuff I've read...

Pat!

I don't suppose those fiberglass tops are available to the DIY'r eh?? I love the look of that James Cook sprinter, and that upper deck sleeping area is exactly what I want (right down to the froli sleep system springs). But at $72,000 euro's, it's waaaayy out of my price range.

gregwoods said:

I don't suppose those fiberglass tops are available to the DIY'r eh?? I love the look of that James Cook sprinter, and that upper deck sleeping area is exactly what I want (right down to the froli sleep system springs). But at $72,000 euro's, it's waaaayy out of my price range.

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Hello Greg -

I think you will find that the fiberglass tops by themselves are also very expensive but they can be purchased separate from the rest of the James Cook. The Froli Sleep System Springs are also available as parts.

Check out https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11 and poke thru the links. You will definitely want to look particularly at the e-shop but I do not have the info that you will need to look up NCV3 style James Cook bits.

Zach

tfrazie said:

I love to see a NCV3 in person. Great designs! Too bad there isn't the demand for these kinds of vehicles in the US. Thanks Zach. I enjoyed seeing these designs.

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These designs look attractive. I'm not a Sprinter/Westy owner currently, but am looking into the possibility. Why do folks think there is no market for these Sprinter based Westfalias in the US. Seems that there are many key things to like (sleeps 4, good mpg, compact for when it counts, etc.). Its hard to discern why a reasonable number of US customers would not be attracted to such an RV?

(Tried posting this just a bit ago, so please excuse any duplicate posts...)

Troy said:

These designs look attractive. I'm not a Sprinter/Westy owner currently, but am looking into the possibility. Why do folks think there is no market for these Sprinter based Westfalias in the US. Seems that there are many key things to like (sleeps 4, good mpg, compact for when it counts, etc.). Its hard to discern why a reasonable number of US customers would not be attracted to such an RV?

(Tried posting this just a bit ago, so please excuse any duplicate posts...)

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Hi Troy -

I'll take a stab at answering your questions.

I agree with you that these designs look attractive. But I am an Airstream Sprinter Westfalia owner so that is not likely a surprise . . .

1. If you look at the majority of RV's sold in the US (not custom conversions but models designed and built and sold by major brands) they are almost always designed for 1 or 2 primary sleepers with only occasional sleeping by even a 3rd or 4th person provided for. And this is true of all classes / sizes of RV's right up to big Class A's and large trailers. They may have occasional beds for a 3rd or more individual but they typically only have a dedicated "bedroom" area for 1 or 2 folks. Either the manufacturers are missing a big market or the majority of RV buyers don't care about the ability to sleep 4.

2. The RV's that have been sold since the Sprinter appeared on the market have steadily increased in size and offered lower fuel mileage. I can't tell you how many people like (many even seem real excited when they see) my Westfalia. And most of those folks also wish that it either was "at least just a bit bigger" or "had a bigger engine - can't imagine that small 5 cylinder can get it out of it's own way!" I am very happy that I am no longer than a standard full size American pickup - it makes driving in cities or on small dirt roads in the woods a whole lot easier. And even though I don't get quite the advertised 22 mpg I am very happy that Westfalia didn't choose a larger body (in length or width) or a larger engine as I know I wouldn't get the close to 20 mpg that I do get if they had. Folks seem willing to trade fuel mileage for size, even poorly configured interior space is apparently preferable to small and efficient.

3. And don't even get me started on the number of folks that wish the Airstream Sprinter Westfalia came with a gasoline engine! I'm very happy to stick with my diesel's mileage and torque, thank you very much!

4. Finally, the proof was in the sales figures: The Airstream Sprinter Westfalia was offered in the US for a couple of years and Airstream seemed only to be able to sell it when it was discounted by close to $20K from it's $84K asking price. Both Airstream and Westfalia would have been bringing more into the US if they could have sold them at a profit.

Fortunately, for me and other Westfalia owners, Airstream thought they could find a bigger market than they did and they brought enough in that I was lucky enough to buy one. Fortunately, for me and other Westfalia owners, but not so fortunate for folks who would like to buy even well used Westfalias, there are enough people who think like you and I to keep the re-sale prices up and the demand strong enough to allow these vehicles to sell quickly when they do come on the market!

Zach

Zach & Troy,

I think the Sprinter Westy was ahead of it's time. Look at the new crop of short wheelbase Sprinters. When we bought our Roadtrek, I always wanted the Sprinter Westfalia but at that time they were significantly more than the RT on the Chevy chassis. These days, prices are much closer within similar fit & finish but you get what you pay for. It would have been interesting to see what they would have offered on the NA NCV3 chassis.

Ben

ben322 said:

Zach & Troy,

I think the Sprinter Westy was ahead of it's time. <snip> It would have been interesting to see what they would have offered on the NA NCV3 chassis.

Ben

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Hi Ben -

As found in the beginning of this thread, this is what, with only minor differences, a North American NCV3 Airstream Sprinter Westfalia would have been like: http://www.westfalia-van.de/en/models/james-cook.html?no_cache=1

When I visited Westfalia in Germany not too long after getting our Airstream that is the design they were finalizing and they said they had developed it in part because of requests from the U.S. market.

See the first post in this thread for more on the Westfalia line in Europe.

Zach

gregwoods said:

I don't suppose those fiberglass tops are available to the DIY'r eh?? I love the look of that James Cook sprinter, and that upper deck sleeping area is exactly what I want (right down to the froli sleep system springs). But at $72,000 euro's, it's waaaayy out of my price range.

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you are about 2 years late...

When Westfalia switched to the NCV3 from the t1N they still had the north american "kit" stocked at the factory...
They offered a 15K Euro install with qualified late model T1Ns...

Cheers
George

georgetg said:

you are about 2 years late...

When Westfalia switched to the NCV3 from the t1N they still had the north american "kit" stocked at the factory...
They offered a 15K Euro install with qualified late model T1Ns...

Cheers
George

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George,

How did you find out about that kit? Do you know if it's still available (either T1N or NCV3)?