Highline Cluster Install

I asked Scan Gauge Development Engineer Jim De Long about the technical feasibility of programming the Multi-Functional Display to display Scan Gauge frestures. He said he likes the idea and would do some exploration.

Bob,
Putting the Scan Gauge II info/programming down in the Multi-Function Display (MFD) could be a good idea, but
OTOH it would seem to lead to a higher degree of distracted driving as I almost never look down through
the steering wheel to see the MFD when I have my Scan Gauge II up beside the instrument cluster hump where
it's much easier and less distracting to monitor without taking my eyes off the road in front of me.
I sure hope once you determine the frequency (how often/mileage interval) of your DPF regenerations that you
change the PID's from exhaust temp to things that really give you real time information.
Like LOD (which you have); Speed (MPH), RPM, Coolant temp/MAP.
These are things you, as the driver, have some control over, and can change with subtle changes in your driving
style.
Watching, and waiting, for autonomous functions that are completely under the control of the engine management
systems, like DPF Regenerations, seems very distracting to me.
DPF Regens occur, then the Sprinter's systems are programmed for them to occur, in response to a number of sensors/
conditions that you (the driver) have absolutely no influence over.
Seems like you are spending a lot of time in a "distracted driving mode" watching and waiting for DPF regens.
I have > 500,000 miles in Sprinters, and once in a while I will notice a hotter than normal pinging of the cooling
exhaust system after engine shut down, but have never seen a CEL or really cared when/how the DPF regens
occur as that is totally a function of engine management.....not a function of how the Sprinter is driven.
Hope this helps,
Roger

sailquik said:

Bob,
Putting the Scan Gauge II info/programming down in the Multi-Function Display (MFD) could be a good idea...

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James seemed excited. Said he was going to look in to it. Depending on price point, I would purchase the product.

sailquik said:

but
OTOH it would seem to lead to a higher degree of distracted driving...

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Perhaps to some distraction may be an issue.
I am a well trained and seasoned prison guard, impervious to distraction and accustomed to multi-tasking , while making split-second life and death decisions in high stress, life threatening environments on a daily basis.

sailquik said:

as I almost never look down through
the steering wheel to see the MFD when I have my Scan Gauge II up beside the instrument cluster hump where
it's much easier and less distracting to monitor without taking my eyes off the road in front of me.

Click to expand...

A safe driving practice.

sailquik said:

...I sure hope once you determine the frequency (how often/mileage interval) of your DPF regenerations...

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According to DPF history log, regenerations occur about every 600 miles. This is a subject to change according to operating environment.

sailquik said:

...that you
change the PID's from exhaust temp to things that really give you real time information...

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I intend to monitor REN and EUP to determine if they coincide.
Coolant via MFD because I use that as my home screen anyway and display larger.

sailquik said:

Like LOD (which you have); Speed (MPH), RPM, Coolant temp/MAP....

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I'll use vehicle analog r.p.m. Gauge.

I want to monitor live RGN, MAP and LOD.

Roger, would you explain the relationship between MAP LOD speed and RPM?

sailquik said:

These are things you, as the driver, have some control over, and can change with subtle changes in your driving
style.

Click to expand...

Agree.

sailquik said:

Watching, and waiting, for autonomous functions that are completely under the control of the engine management
systems, like DPF Regenerations, seems very distracting to me.

Click to expand...

But not distracting to me. I think it's important to know precisely when DPF regenerations are occurring to avoid unnecessary DPF disruptions.

sailquik said:

DPF Regens occur, then the Sprinter's systems are programmed for them to occur, in response to a number of sensors/
conditions that you (the driver) have absolutely no influence over.

Click to expand...

Not entirely accurate. Operator has control or ability not to interrupt DPF regeneration's. L

If I notice a regeneration is occurring, if safe to do so, I will continue to operate the vehicle in a manner that will allow the DPF regeneration cycle to complete.

According to ECU history log analysis the system will allow for 3 DPF regeneration interruptions before throwing a CEL/DTC.

sailquik said:

Seems like you are spending a lot of time in a "distracted driving mode" watching and waiting for DPF regens.

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I'll bet a weeks pay I am safer driver than you as assessed by THIRD PARTY traffic cop of your radom choice.

sailquik said:

I have > 500,000 miles in Sprinters, and once in a while I will notice a hotter than normal pinging of the cooling
exhaust system after engine shut down, but have never seen a CEL or really cared when/how the DPF regens
occur as that is totally a function of engine management.....not a function of how the Sprinter is driven.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Click to expand...

I am a discriminating Mercedes-Benz owner and wanted to the best or nothing. So my last vehicle purchased was a Toyota.

The mere fact the Sprinter is of European orgin makes it a "Special needs" vehicle.

Then add on the newly developed, and yet to be perfected, Bluetec exhaust after-treatment system and...

"Special needs" indeed!!!

It’s so weird I’m the first person to truly look into doing this swap. Well, at least it seems that way. Hopefully I can bring some good news to everyone.

Cheers,

Christopher


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I had thought of it too, but when I couldn't even get a commercial Sprinter MB service department to install the MB trailer hitch and wiring package with a MB part number, or even trying to put together the aux battery components.... something like a steering wheel swap (airbag) and instrument cluster swap (coding) appears to be insurmountable.

I suspect that buying a new van with the option would be cheaper...

Bob/Noxious;
You asked:
"Roger, would you explain the relationship between MAP LOD speed and RPM?"
OK, the LOD is the PID (Parameter Identification) abbreviation for Current % of engine load at the current engine speed (RPM).
LOD is the PRIMARY and MOST IMPORTANT Parameter ID to monitor in a Sprinter!
Why you ask:
Because virtually all the other engine management PID's available on a Scan Gauge II increase and decrease in a direct relationship
to the increase/decrease of the % engine LOD.
When the LOD increases:
The fueling rate (GPH) increases significantly!
The MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure)/BST (Turbocharger Boost Pressure) is increased by your ECM (Engine Control Module/main engine
management computer) to compensate for the increase in the fueling rate (GPH) to keep your engine burning clean.
So, these 3 PID's (LOD-GPH-MAP) are locked together and the driver can only affect the % engine load by increasing or decreasing the throttle pedal
output (it's electronic and it's PID is TPS (Throttle Position Sensor).
Have a look at the GPH PID sometime when you are starting up an incline....... the LOD will increase significantly......the GPH will increase significantly
.....the MAP will increase significantly.
But pay attention to the GPH increase relative to the LOD increase.
LOD @ < 50%......you are getting terrific fuel mileage and the mies per gallon (MPG) will be increasing gradually on your Scan Gauge iI and the onboard
OEM fuel mileage display.
LOD @ 50%-60%.....you are getting OK fuel mileage, but the MPG is static (neither increasing nor decreasing).
LOD @ 60%-75%.... your fuel mileage on both displays will be decreasing and there will be a noticeable and significant increase (say 0.5-1.0 GPH)
on your fueling rate (GPH).
LOD @ 75%-85%.....your getting far less mileage than you could be getting if you reduced the % engine LOD. Perhaps a manual downshift will
reduce the LOD enough to give you better fuel mileage at the same speed with an increase in RPM.
LOD 85%-99% ......you are overworking your engine to the max! The fueling rate will have increased to double or triple (perhaps more) the GPH
rate @ < 70% LOD.
Your injectors and fuel system are pumping in all the fuel possible at your current RPM (programmed into the ECM) and your MAP/BST will be at
maximum possible output (36.x for the OM-612/OM-647 5 cylinder T1N Sprinters.....36.X for the OM-642 V6 NCV3 Sprinters.....36.9 for the OM-
651 4 cylinder NCV3 Sprinters).
All of your temperature parameters will be increasing as you are using all the power your engine can develop.
The solutions:
Manually downshift (not required in the 7G-Tronic/OM-651 4 cylinder NCV3) to reduce the LOD.
Slow down and downshift to reduce the LOD even further.
RPM is important to the driver as each engine series has a most efficient/most powerful/best fuel economy
RPM range.
T1N 5 cylinder/5 speed trans........2600-3100 RPM (when developing max. power up a grade or pushing into strong headwinds when fully
loaded or towing.
NCV3 V6 cylinder/5 speed trans.......2600-3200 RPM (when developing max. power up a grade or pushing into strong headwinds when fully
loaded or towing.
NCV3 4 cylinder/7 speed trans.......1900-2400 RPM (when developing max. power up a grade or pushing into strong headwinds when fully
loaded or towing.
Monitoring the LOD/MAP-BST/RPM/GPH/coolant temp can give you a whole new perspective on how best to drive your Sprinter most efficiently
getting the best overall fuel mileage and preventing unnecessary CEL's and visits to an authorized repair facility with full diagnostic capability.
Note what the LOD-MAP/BST-GPH-RPM are when you are just running along @ 50-60% engine load (LOD).
As you increase your speed, or start up an uphill grade, notice how quickly the LOD/MAP/BST/GPH increase.
Manually downshift and notice the increase in RPM (500 RPM with the 5G-Tronic/NAG-1 transmission between 5th gear (0.83:1 ratio) downshifted to 4th gear
(1:1 ratio) with some decrease in LOD-MAP/BST-GPH.
If you don't see any decrease in LOD-MAP/BST-GPH at the higher RPM in the lower gear (5th vs 4th) there are only 2 possibilities.
#1 Your speed and the degree of incline require more power than your Sprinter can make at the current RPM with the current load in/behind the vehicle.
You need to reduce speed and manually downshift another gear.
#2 The manual downshift didn't gain you enough reduction in LOD to decrease the GPH significantly and you can shift back up to your higher gear and
see the resultant change in GPH (usually < 0.5 GPH).
Hope this helps,
Roger

Thank you Roger, I just printed your post so I can study it.

MB engineers from Germany got back to my dealer. They are saying there is a lot involved in doing the cluster steering wheel swap, and that it can’t be done. However, I read about a guy who swapped the wheel and even provided pics. It was even stated that both high line and low line cluster share the exact same wiring plug. So, not sure what the deal is. I guess I have to give up on this one.


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enjoitheride said:

MB engineers from Germany got back to my dealer. They are saying there is a lot involved in doing the cluster steering wheel swap, and that it can’t be done. However, I read about a guy who swapped the wheel and even provided pics. It was even stated that both high line and low line cluster share the exact same wiring plug. So, not sure what the deal is. I guess I have to give up on this one.


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Click to expand...

I imagine that is has been done by someone with access to the right people, but it needs MB blessing to do it (coding) (possible safety issues), and they aren't blessing it.

Back in 2005, VW enthusiasts were swapping over Euro clusters with the high pixel display, and it was doable. However, some scan tools make it possible to get into the system, and they are a lot less than the $5k MB version. Adding stuff to a VW is still relatively straightforward if the coding steps have been figured out.

Given my experience (brick wall) with the official MB trailer hitch wiring package available from the parts counter, I knew that your swap idea was DOA.

enjoitheride said:

MB engineers from Germany got back to my dealer. They are saying there is a lot involved in doing the cluster steering wheel swap, and that it can’t be done. However, I read about a guy who swapped the wheel and even provided pics. It was even stated that both high line and low line cluster share the exact same wiring plug. So, not sure what the deal is. I guess I have to give up on this one.





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Click to expand...

Not sure if you ever attempted to pursue this, but I took the leap about a year ago. I really just wanted volume controls for the stereo. The upgraded wheel bolted right on. I bought a used high line gauge cluster and it plugged right in. Everything worked, except the mileage. It gives me complete read outs of all necessary data. I had read somewhere that the buttons on the left side of the wheel may not function, but they do. The only issue I have is the mileage. It shows dashes. When I first open the door it’ll display the current mileage of the new cluster and I have the old cluster that I periodically plug in to monitor the vehicles mileage. Luckily diesels don’t have to pass emissions in Georgia so the mileage is really only useful for service.



I would love to find someone who could “Virginize” this cluster so I could have the correct mileage displayed. Anyone who can help with that it would be greatly appreciated.

sailquik said:

Bob/Noxious;

NCV3 V6 cylinder/5 speed trans.......2600-3200 RPM (when developing max. power up a grade or pushing into strong headwinds when fully
loaded or towing.
NCV3 4 cylinder/7 speed trans.......1900-2400 RPM (when developing max. power up a grade or pushing into strong headwinds when fully
loaded or towing.

Click to expand...

Interesting post Roger, guess I'll have to get a scan gauge. I also find it interesting that the 4 cylinder makes its power at lower RPMs than the V6.

The performance (best/most efficient power range) on the OM-642 V6 for 2019
with the 7G-Tronic is altered to be more like the OM-651!
Hopefully my 2019 gets built soon!
More when I have some time and miles with Scan Gauge II in the 2019.
Roger

modernvagabond said:

Not sure if you ever attempted to pursue this, but I took the leap about a year ago. I really just wanted volume controls for the stereo. The upgraded wheel bolted right on. I bought a used high line gauge cluster and it plugged right in. Everything worked, except the mileage. It gives me complete read outs of all necessary data. I had read somewhere that the buttons on the left side of the wheel may not function, but they do. The only issue I have is the mileage. It shows dashes. When I first open the door it’ll display the current mileage of the new cluster and I have the old cluster that I periodically plug in to monitor the vehicles mileage. Luckily diesels don’t have to pass emissions in Georgia so the mileage is really only useful for service.



I would love to find someone who could “Virginize” this cluster so I could have the correct mileage displayed. Anyone who can help with that it would be greatly appreciated.

Click to expand...

I can help you with that.
Also, can do any coding and programming.

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After my experience with my 2013 Dodge Ram C/V, it would make sense that the wiring would be in place for the cluster, however correcting the mileage; security stuff and other coding hurdles are the problem (at least, it seems, in the USA).

If I could get the stuff to work, I'd consider the swap.

v2max said:

I can help you with that.
Also, can do any coding and programming.

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Click to expand...

V2MAX

Is “showing the mileage” something that you can sort ?

My German isn’t good at all..
but this guy “Marvin” has done the steering wheel and high line clock upgrade video..

https://youtu.be/Z0g3Pcq_4KQ

Hope this helps, it would be good to get the mileage added


He’s also done a video of the 2014 front end upgrade (different video)

The steering wheel is just an airbag with buttons on a very quick swap that made the audio 5 radio volume work straight away.
The highline dash plug is the same, the fuel gauge, rpm and Speedo work but I think to make this work fully a pre 2012 dash is needed or a esp deactivation implausible error will be on the dash.

just did the swap, both vans are 2008, everything works but mileage, any ideas?

charity's van said:

just did the swap, both vans are 2008, everything works but mileage, any ideas?

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The IC contains the SSID of the original EIS/EZS... To make it all work you have 2 choices, send the IC to someone that has a tool such as AVDI in order to make the IC virgin and 0 out the mileage. A personalization/synchronization must be performed after you get the IC back.

Second option is, buy yourself a FVDI programmer (Chinese version of AVDI but without DAS manager) and read the eeprom of the IC and send the IC dump to someone for a deletion of the SSID and mileage set to 0. Write the corrected dump back and use FVDI to synchronize the IC with the EIS/EZS.

Try to contact Bawareca, member of forum, about it... He can direct you and explain it to you better since he has the original AVDI with DAS manager. He can virginize/personalize/activate multiple components on the Sprinter.

It is possible to swap to a hiline but you will need xentry to activate thermostat and a few other features and arbrites avdi to do the mileage so you don't get the implausible message. It's a pretty easy job to do as have done it on mine and a few others now. Hiline and loline vehicles are wired the same for dash and features they just aren't activated.