Caught the black death. Looking for advice.
- Thread starter FFR5445
- Start date
Am I missing something?
Has the bolt been found to be stripped in the head? Was there a problem with the first replacement?
If no, then I would have a set of new seals and bolts on hand, remove the leaking injector, carefully inspect the seat, clean as needed and if found to be ok, re-install the injector with a new seal/bolt.
Removing the injector should go well being that it was recently removed.
Do NAS aka NAFTA 2004's have more seal failures than other years? I haven't noticed a trend. That said, I haven't been looking for that either.
Sometimes repairs just don't last as one would hope.
vic
Has the bolt been found to be stripped in the head? Was there a problem with the first replacement?
If no, then I would have a set of new seals and bolts on hand, remove the leaking injector, carefully inspect the seat, clean as needed and if found to be ok, re-install the injector with a new seal/bolt.
Removing the injector should go well being that it was recently removed.
Do NAS aka NAFTA 2004's have more seal failures than other years? I haven't noticed a trend. That said, I haven't been looking for that either.
Sometimes repairs just don't last as one would hope.
vic
sailquik
Well-known member
Vic,
Look at post # 136.
He has repaired the #1 injector at least once before, with a new hold down bolt on the claw, seems to be using the correct
torque values/angles and the #1 injector is leaking again.
Yes the Timesert is normally used for a broken off bolt and the mess getting the broken stub out of the aluminum threads in the
cylinder head makes, but since this one continues to have issues, adding the Timesert may fix the problem permanently.
Roger
Look at post # 136.
He has repaired the #1 injector at least once before, with a new hold down bolt on the claw, seems to be using the correct
torque values/angles and the #1 injector is leaking again.
Yes the Timesert is normally used for a broken off bolt and the mess getting the broken stub out of the aluminum threads in the
cylinder head makes, but since this one continues to have issues, adding the Timesert may fix the problem permanently.
Roger
vanski
If it’s winter, I’m probably skiing..
I was reading Dr A bulletin on proper NEW hold down torque values and he said although the 'manual' suggests 62 in/lbs plus 90 degrees, it's best to be 62 in/lbs plus 180. BUT folks have been breaking them at that torque level mostly due to the hold down bore not being clean.
I'd feel much better about going to the 62 plus 180 if I thoroughly cleaned the bore and put the TS in as recommended by Roger.
I'm a little worried about drilling at all in my head, especially near the water jacket, but perhaps I can find another piece of aluminum to conduct a test run.
Thanks guys
I'd feel much better about going to the 62 plus 180 if I thoroughly cleaned the bore and put the TS in as recommended by Roger.
I'm a little worried about drilling at all in my head, especially near the water jacket, but perhaps I can find another piece of aluminum to conduct a test run.
Thanks guys
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Midwestdrifter
Engineer In Residence
I would check the head sealing surface for imperfections. Combustion gasses can erode the surface. If that is the case, then a new washer will start leaking eventually. The fix is to cut/grind/sand the seal face smooth again.
One repair.
Standing alone, one return leak doesn't spell disaster to me.
Maybe prep was deficient. Maybe the new seal was flawed. The torque wrench may be off calibration. There could be many reasons other than a stripped thread.
ft/lbs inch/lbs plus 135 degrees? A little bit more, but not as scary.
Have you checked the torque wrench against another to assure calibration?
What is there to lose by inspection then trying another new seal and bolt?
vic
Added:
I believe that most broken new bolts can be attributed to the threaded blind hole not being completely cleaned out. I have no data.
Unless there was concrete evidence of the threads being stripped I wouldn't be drilling into a good head no matter how easy the repair appears.
Standing alone, one return leak doesn't spell disaster to me.
Maybe prep was deficient. Maybe the new seal was flawed. The torque wrench may be off calibration. There could be many reasons other than a stripped thread.
So why not 62
Have you checked the torque wrench against another to assure calibration?
What is there to lose by inspection then trying another new seal and bolt?
vic
Added:
I believe that most broken new bolts can be attributed to the threaded blind hole not being completely cleaned out. I have no data.
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vanski
If it’s winter, I’m probably skiing..
So this will by my third time going at it with the #1 injector guys. I must admit that I haven't had the appropriate tools in the past to thoroughly clean the injector bore. My second time I did do a much better job, and it lasted a good 20k miles compared to the first go which only lasted like 200 miles.
I have this tool set on the way - https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Injector-Seat-Cleaning-Kit/dp/B012UUDP9A and have now spent a bunch of time watching videos on how people use this tool set to properly clean the bore and most importantly the bottom of the bore out where the NEW copper seal is. In the past I was apprehensive to do too much cleaning because I was afraid of debris getting down into the motor, but this kit has an appropriate plug which can be put in and then extracted.
Regarding the hold down bolt bore, at this point there has been a bunch of lava which has oozed its way down into the hold down bolt bore. I'm very worried there might be so much carbon deposits down in bolt bore that it may not seat properly, especially after taking it out for the third time. I've read up on methods to clean the bolt bore such as taking a piece of copper tubing, putting an appropriately sized drill bit through, and then inserting into the bolt bore and LIGHTLY drilling the bottom to clean the gunk out. And then of course there's the old hold down bolt with a cut in it to get the threads cleaned out followed by a thin cylindrical wire brush to tidy it up properly.
I think whether or not I use the time-sert (also in the mail) is going to depend on how I feel the morning I get up. I agree that I'm not excited at all about the thought of actually drilling out my head!!!
Hopefully all will go well this time around and folks who have this happen in the future will see my experience and realize there is a level of thoroughness which needs to be exercised otherwise the issue will come back.
I have this tool set on the way - https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Injector-Seat-Cleaning-Kit/dp/B012UUDP9A and have now spent a bunch of time watching videos on how people use this tool set to properly clean the bore and most importantly the bottom of the bore out where the NEW copper seal is. In the past I was apprehensive to do too much cleaning because I was afraid of debris getting down into the motor, but this kit has an appropriate plug which can be put in and then extracted.
Regarding the hold down bolt bore, at this point there has been a bunch of lava which has oozed its way down into the hold down bolt bore. I'm very worried there might be so much carbon deposits down in bolt bore that it may not seat properly, especially after taking it out for the third time. I've read up on methods to clean the bolt bore such as taking a piece of copper tubing, putting an appropriately sized drill bit through, and then inserting into the bolt bore and LIGHTLY drilling the bottom to clean the gunk out. And then of course there's the old hold down bolt with a cut in it to get the threads cleaned out followed by a thin cylindrical wire brush to tidy it up properly.
I think whether or not I use the time-sert (also in the mail) is going to depend on how I feel the morning I get up. I agree that I'm not excited at all about the thought of actually drilling out my head!!!
Hopefully all will go well this time around and folks who have this happen in the future will see my experience and realize there is a level of thoroughness which needs to be exercised otherwise the issue will come back.
Midwestdrifter
Engineer In Residence
If you get some crap in the cylinder, just crank the engine briefly with the camshaft sensor unplugged and a tube/catch can on the injector line. The pressure will easily blow most of the crap out of the cylinder. A blast of compressed air will also work if the exhaust valve is open.
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