water to water heat exchangers are easy to source and quite inexpensive.
Espar D5 for Cabin Heat & Hot Water Heat
- Thread starter bsqr
- Start date
Attached is a quick schematic of my system.
When the heater is on, water is always circulating through the heating air coil as well as the drinking water heater tank. The heating floor system is on its own control system and turns on and off based on the temperature of the floor.
Basic Components:
Heater: Espar MII-12
Air Heating Coil: I used a standard 12x6 or 12x8 commercial HVAC coil and installed quiet (s-blade) 12V computer fans on the back of it.
Water Heater: Isotemp Round Style water heater tank
Floor heating Loop: My floor heating loop is made with 1/2" tubing. That was a bit overkill when I put this system together 5 years ago. If I went back and did it again, I would use 3/8 tubing. The tempering valve is a standard 3-port water tempering valve. The circulating pump is a small Bosch coolant circulating pump. I actually used the same pump that my T1N sprinter uses on the coolant loop.
Controls: My espar heater and air coil are controlled by a household programmable thermostat based on air temperature. This is mostly relay logic plus the thermostat. The floor heating system is controlled by an arduino. I have a temperature sensor down a piece of pex tubing to the middle of the floor. The arduino reads the temperature and turns the circulating pump on and off based on that temperature.
Attachments
Davydd
Well-known member
Just a minor correction in your narrative. ARV never “spun-out” of Great West. The owner of ARV before ARV existed was just a customer and RV enthusiast. He gave the idea to GWVans for the Rixen system and the compressor refrigerator and maybe a few other things to have custom built. GWVan subsequently adopted them as their standard. I knew of this while my GWVan was being built much to my chagrin of being a tad too soon and not benefiting. You indirectly benefited from the future ARV. Yes they are still using the Rixen system. ARV did Initially adopt the floor plan Layout and sofa/bed on side rails because it was the best design at the time and nothing more. That is my corroborating opinion and it closely matched my previous Pleasure-way. My present ARV did not have the sofa/bed as I in turn gave them the electric articulating bed design as a first in a Class B and my next ARV will be an entirely different design plan of my own and not remotely anything like my current ARV.
avanti
2022 Ford Transit 3500
You keep saying this. Unfortunately, it just ain't so.
ARV was launched jointly by Mike Neundorfer and Mike Ellis. Your story about MN being a GWV customer is accurate. Ellis, however, was general manager of GWV at the time. When ARV was launched, Ellis was its founding president, as you can confirm on his LinkedIn page:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-ellis-22917219/
His stay at ARV was relatively brief and I do not know the circumstances of his departure. I know, however, that his involvement has been carefully scrubbed from the ARV website. The Net never forgets, though. A little poking around at previous versions of their website in the Wayback Machine will readily demonstrate the depth of his involvement during and after launch. For example, here is an excerpt from Mike Ellis's bio from the ARV website in 2013:
You may quibble with the meaning of the term "spin out", but when a customer and the manager of one business leave together to launch another business, I think that most reasonable people would agree that the event would qualify.
Interestingly, here is a screen-grab from a (now deleted) youTube video that bizarrely contains BOTH GWV and ARV branding:
As for the extent to which the design of the original ARV Ocean 1 borrowed from the GWV Legend, let's take a look:
Here is. the layout of the Legend from the era:
and here is the original Ocean 1:
To their credit, ARV significantly upgraded to much nicer/more expensive finishes, paid much more attention to aesthetics, and added the Silverleaf electronic control panel. Beyond that, the vans were essentially clones of each other--right down to the folding screen doors, door grab handles, and much more.
It is also interesting to read what you (Davydd) said about all of this at the time:
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/26654655/page/2.cfm
I am a big fan of ARV, but I honestly don't understand the motivation for this kind of revisionist history, and I certainly don't understand your motivation for backing it up. Your van is amazing, and ARV has come a long way since 2012. But to deny their origins as a GWV spin-off is historically inaccurate and just silly.
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elemental
Wherever you go, there you are.
As a (mostly) disinterested 3rd party, I disagree with the use of the term "spin out" to describe what is recounted herein. I sought guidance from the web to back up my understanding, and found a definition of "spin out" from Investopedia. According to Investopedia, a "spin out" is a corporate restructuring, with the "spun out" portion of the original company taking with it parts of the original company that form the genesis of the new company. The descriptions provided here about ARV and GWV seem to say that one guy left GWV and joined up with a previous customer of GWV and made a new company; no business infrastructure from GWV was used in creating ARV.
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avanti
2022 Ford Transit 3500
That is one definition. It is certainly not the only one in common use. For example, a great many companies are said to have "spun out" of various universities. Here's another definition:
"a business company that has developed from another organization"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/spin-out
I am not particularly interested in debating definitions. I have documented the facts of the situation. Call it what you like.
GeorgeRa
2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
Is this a sealed system?, no expansion tank?
Davydd
Well-known member
I assume Mike N was looking for a new challenge after he bought a GWVan and despite all the custom things he got he was still not satisfied. In fact frustrated. He confided that to me. That was the impetus. The original owner of GWVan retired and sold the company. For whatever reason Mike Ellis soon left and as I said was very much involved initially with ARV because his expertise was sought. I doubt and I don't have privy information but I imagine he was, despite the title, a hired employee of ARV and that there was no ownership or partnership involved. He was there from April to August, 2012 and produced their first two videos and newsletters. Why he left ARV is unknown to me. As far as I know he is still in Canada and his company and website is in my last correspondence...
http://www.ellis-sanchez.com/ Videography, Editing | Sales Process Training | Internet Response Based Relationship Building | email Marketing / Newsletter Development | Contact Building Industries: Auto | Recreational Vehicles | Real Estate | Retail
I just checked. It is still a viable web site. It seems to me Mike Ellis was marketing what maybe a startup company needs and he was out of a job at GWVans because of the ownership transition. So put two and two together.
The the point is all the best things about GWVan were developed by the original founding owner, Martin Geurts and the improvements you have enjoyed over my GWVan built just two months before Mike N's were made by Mike N at the original factory under the original owner. The new owner's achievement was to manage bankrupting the company in short order.
Could you please share the PNs for the following?
- 12v control valve
- Coolant specific check valve
- Air bleed valve
- Booster pump
I’ve been looking for automotive coolant system parts that would be easy to adapt to a system like this, and either just find junk, or in the case of the 12v valve, CAN / PWM based parts that are too much work to control at this point.
For a pump, it seems there are good solutions on eBay like this:
Labwork Auxiliary Cooling Water Pump For 2007-2014 Golf GTI 2008-2014 Passat | eBay
<li> Fitment：</li>.
www.ebay.com
I’d like the control valve to initial just be wired to the 12v accessory power, so when I key on, it joins the House glycol loop to the engine. Key off, and it’s divorced.
Hi George...thanks for sharing all of this information. Do you have a complete schematic for your system? I've seen the basic concept of your system but wondered if you had ever mapped out the entire system? Do you have a complete parts list? I like the idea of the d2 to heat the cabin while the D5 heats the water and keeps all the tanks from freezing. What you've done seems like a near perfect solution. Thanks for your help!
GeorgeRa
2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
You will find more details and implementation struggles in this thread https://sprinter-source.com/forums/index.php?threads/21773/
Overflow tank is fully custom, can share drawings or get one from Rixen. One of key little gadgets which make life easier was air purging device, a small piece of brass with a thumbscrew valve.
GeorgeRa
2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
Here it is, PDF file has a better resolution. https://sprinter-source.com/forums/index.php?threads/21773/page-47#post-541422
DugVan
New member
Did you (or anyone here?) install a Rixen or similar heat system? Can you share pictures of where you connected the heat exchanger to the engine coolant? I think I know where I'll tie in but want some confirmation before I make the cut.. Thanks!
I have been looking for the connection points for the Sprinter for ages - thank you for the pictures. Could you possibly share a pic of the other connection, and identify the flow direction please.
DugVan
New member
I was advised to cut into the short 90 degree elbow on the drivers side. I’m not sure of the direction of flow. I removed the elbow from the tee. I used a 160 degree hose fitting from the tee to one side of the heat exchanger and used one of the Rixen supplied 90 degree hose between the fire wall and the other side of the heat exchanger.
pics to follow.
Attachments
hilld
Well-known member
Thanks for the detailed pics, much appreciated.
Fantastic, thank you.
I notice in one of the photos the Espar unit and heat exchanger. Is the Espar on the same circuit as the engine coolant and the heat exchanger then separates that from the conversion, or is the heat exchanger separating the engine circuit from the domestic circuit that has the Espar in it? Would be great to see a schematic, and your view on the effectiveness of the engine heating of domestic water, and Espar heating of the engine.
I am also guessing from the cleanness of the engine bay that this is on a VS30 variant? If so, how have you linked to the van's ventilation system electrically?
