Wanting to check splines on drive axles on 2008 NCV3 2500

lindenengineering said:

Mr Gabe Athouse a curious post--Pumpkin? pumpkin? that's a fruit or is it a vegetable? BUT upon refection I suppose you mean the differential unit, am I correct in that assumption? A curious description by itself!

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Yes; "pumpkin" is vernacular among some in the USA for the differential.

Some examples:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Differential-Assembly-Pumpkin-ONLY-/332345332352
https://www.postandcourier.com/automotive/car-talk---jacking-up-truck-at-the-pumpkin/article_0df27398-f546-583e-bcfd-74f2a733c695.html

Also known as "the rear end".

At least we in the USA don't misuse the word "fanny".

And silly me, thought is was something Americans carved up at Halloween & then threw in the trash when it went rotten--when! In Venezuela they made nice soup out of it called Sopa de Auyama .

https://www.analitica.com/entretenimiento/vida-con-estilo/crema-de-auyama-delicia-venezolana/

Try it sometime washed down with a tot of Ven' rum
My favorite, La Victoria Anejo. Sta Teresa, since 1796 almost as old as the USA itself.
https://www.santateresarum.com/santa-teresa-1796/

p.s. do you still want that repair pricing?
I am testing it in the AM. (A final before hand over)
Dennis

Actually I would contend the pumpkin is the differential housing, not the diff itself. But yet, I’m surprised that mr Dennis has not picked that one up as he seems so keen to absorb every colloquialism along his many journeys. Yes the pumpkin is the bulbous part of any straight axle assembly and this is quite common terminology among the red necks of these lands.
As to welding, yes it’s hot however it’s quick and can generally be done in ways to not damage surrounding metal and grease. Just thinking out loud for possible fix for this seemingly common and premature fail point.

Dennis, Your thorough examination of the situation you dealt with on this Sprinter and willingness to take the time to share this information is greatly appreciated. A simple click on "Thanks" was not enough for me this time.

lindenengineering said:

p.s. do you still want that repair pricing?
I am testing it in the AM. (A final before hand over)
Dennis

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Dennis, Yes, I would like to know what you charged for parts and labor and what parts you ended up replacing and how the van checked out as well.

I wonder how many other failed splines were as a result of leaving the brake engaged while driving and frying the hub splines.

TY!

Gabe Athouse said:

Actually I would contend the pumpkin is the differential housing, not the diff itself. But yet, I’m surprised that mr Dennis has not picked that one up as he seems so keen to absorb every colloquialism along his many journeys. Yes the pumpkin is the bulbous part of any straight axle assembly and this is quite common terminology among the red necks of these lands.
As to welding, yes it’s hot however it’s quick and can generally be done in ways to not damage surrounding metal and grease. Just thinking out loud for possible fix for this seemingly common and premature fail point.

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I think you have coined the phrase!!!
RED NECK fixes!

Can you imagine this red neck vernacular when discussing a rear axle with a German tech who has limited English and NOT familiar with American English.
For example :"There is a strange noise coming out of the pumpkin" he hears over the telephone & in his head he understands & translates :-
"Aus dem Kürbis kommt ein seltsames Geräusch"

Then concludes:- Guter Gott, was raucht dieser Amerikaner?
Eine verrückte Nation!--Sie können es nicht ernst meinen!
Dennis

eralimited57 said:

Dennis, Yes, I would like to know what you charged for parts and labor and what parts you ended up replacing and how the van checked out as well.

I wonder how many other failed splines were as a result of leaving the brake engaged while driving and frying the hub splines.

TY!

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Back to serious stuff !
I/We dropped out the rear axle oil and removed the cover.
An internal visual inspection was found be good with no immediate visible damage/deterioration .
The brakes and rotors were removed exposing the destroyed parking brake shoes & hardware.
All the components were heavily corroded even the brake back plates had excessive corrosion evident. These items including the rotors were discarded as un-serviceable.
The hub/axle shafts were removed revealing the drivers side had seized, torn out the splines, and dumped debris into the axle tube.
The passenger's side was less affected by heat and deemed serviceable with no debris deposits evident.
The findings were reported to the owner with a pro forma invoice to remedy the failure. It was as approved
The driver's side half shaft & hub was replaced.
The foundation brakes were replaced due to heat and shoe disintegration causing contingent damage.
Dennis

Dennis,

Parts and labor were?

eralimited57 said:

Dennis,

Parts and labor were?

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Let’s guess. I’m $2286.69

Total bill with tax $2398,03
Parts content $1549,03 (taxable)
Labor $849.00
Dennis

I’ll take that as a win, even though nobody else guessed.

Dennis,

Did you use brand new MB parts, rebuilt or some other brand and if so what brand did you go with?

Thanks!!!

All parts were genuine MB ..
That is all we install as being genuine MB parts. That's a shop policy unless the customer specifies otherwise.
Dennis

New or Rebuilt parts?

How much effort was expended to remove the axle/hub?

Do you think I just didn't "knock" on the hub with enough force to break it loose and pull it out?

First nothing rebuilt all new!.
A whack with a 5 lb cooper mallet knocked them out of the axle register .
Dennis

Dennis..........and there is nothing that has to be done within the differential to remove and then replace the axle/hub, just pull out and push the new one back in?

So in other words to remove and replace the axle/hub the differential does not have to be opened up at all?

thx

OK with a van that has done 200,000 miles (in this case) and torn out a half shaft spline/hub, hence the inevitable question arises as to the condition of the axle assy as a whole.

Obviously then the first additional inspection was to pull the other side and inspect it since the parking brakes shoe had also been "cooked" which may have caused grease blow out /bearing destruction on the other side.
Potentially then yet another failure point in the making later "down the road".

Equally the differential internally might be worn to excess, so its also prudent to remove the cover and inspect it for wear .
In this case the oil wasn't low or black, and the internals showed no signs of anything to be concerned about.. So fit to be returned to service.

If on the other hand we had found that the axle shaft & hub on the other side was not really fit for any long term operation, then that would have pushed the price up yet another $650. Should the differential and its gears been found to be excessively worn or future service life be in jeopardy for the long term then its would change the whole repair approach.

As with most repairs cost and customer budgets determine a fix procedure .
The decision ultimately lies with the customer , but is incumbent upon a shop to give best possible options.
Should the rear axle overall condition be deteriorated as to jeopardize long term reliability then it has/or should to be changed out.

This is where the 70% rule applies!
If the repair exceeds 70% of new replace it.
In this case, should the other side be needing yet another shaft & hub assy then it would be close to a tipping point of replacing the whole assy with used low mileage take out.
We had a late model axle available with 11000 miles on it for $2500 and with the same labor time repair and replaceable costs start to converge.
Again in our case we mentioned that should the axle shaft be worn/defective on the other side then the replacement option was to be desirable for many reasons including cost.

Obviously then should the van be at a dealer their only option would be to install an exchange unit priced about $4700 plus foundation brakes plus labor. Say $6700!!!
In that scenario the 70% rule doesn't come close.

So in our case the repair was a mix of replace and inspect.
Without seeing yours, I would image its just inspect or simply leave it alone and "don't fix what don't need fixin" to coin a popular farm boy approach found in Iowa and /or Somerset (UK)
Dennis



.

I finally took my Sprinter to a shop in the Dallas area called SOUTHWEST AUTO (Jon Howes) is the owner. They test drove and inspected the rear end and said it is all normal in terms of the play in the driveshaft and wheel to axle play etc etc. Told me to keep on driven' it. They seem like honest people although I did not ask them to go thru the entire vehicle although they did and ended up charging me about $150 to do so and came out with a clean bill of health. I have no complaints. I will return to them if and when needed.