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Old 02-08-2018, 04:03 PM   #1
Aqua Puttana
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Default Injector Classify Program Code Coding Misc.

Injector classification/coding often comes up as relates to T1N injector changes.

My opinion.
If the engine is running correctly you are ok. It isn't like the injectors are going to be so far out of whack that overfueling could be a problem. I suspect that the injector is related to emissions compliance more than actual operation.

This is a collection of some posts, not really a Database worthy thread. More detail can be found by going to the original posts/threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Dennis,
Thanks for the additional information. I always appreciate your input. vic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talbott594 View Post
2004 Sprinter 2500 T1N OM647.
Please add that info to your signature.

You should be fine if coding isn't available to you. I was unable to code my early production 2004 when I changed all 5 injectors. It has been running fine for many, many miles since. (knock/touch wood)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo John View Post
There is a company that has a great tune from 2005-2008....It wont work on a 2003

I would like to purchase it but he never tried it on a 2004......

He would not guarantee it would work on a 2004......its the mystery year for him

Does anybody know the differences in these years when it comes to the engine/ecu/ecm

Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
I can't answer your specific question, but there may be a break point in the 2004 ECM's. The reason I say that is in a recent thread Doktor A mentioned that when replacing injectors the early production North American 2004 OM647's do not respond to injector coding. The later ones will. That indicates to me that there are two versions of either mapping or ECM architecture within the 2004 model year. FWIW. vic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
...

I haven't heard it referred to as "tuned", but I suppose that fits. A more common term is "coded".

My take on injector coding.

The injectors are not able to be manufactured to strict standards. The size of the "squirt" can vary. The injectors are tested and assigned a number code which relates to the "squirt" quantity.

When a new injector is installed then the specific injector code number can be submitted to the ECM (engine computer) so the injection quantity is a known value to the computer.

The ECM constantly monitors the engine operation which includes varying the injector "squirts" based upon feedback.

I replaced all 5 injectors in my 2004 with Bosch factory reconditioned injectors. As happened to your mechanic, I was unable to get the ECM to accept the new injector codes with my DAD. I never did code my injectors. My engine has been running fine for many tens of thousand miles.

My opinion.

The injector coding helps the ECM to trim in the fuel quantity more quickly after new injectors are installed. Because the ECM is constantly monitoring and adjusting the injected quantities based upon feedback, my theory is that eventually the ECM gets the injected quantity trimmed in whether the new injectors were coded or not. I stopped worrying about it quite quickly for my engine although I would have preferred to code my injectors.

All that said, I readily defer to any professional Sprinter technicians who disagree.

The following documentation should help to support my ideas above. vic
As always, clicking on the blue arrow icon within the quote box will take you to the original thread/post. In the case of the post immediately above it will take you to much more technical information.

Good luck. vic
Early 2004 T1N OM647 Engines may not respond to programming for injector change outs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abittenbinder View Post
'06 engine into an '04 chassis is a plug and play swap.

I would however record the injector 'programming numbers' on paper in case your '04 ECM allows for injector programming. Early '04 ECMs do not program injectors.

Doktor A
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
I can't answer your specific question, but there may be a break point in the 2004 ECM's. The reason I say that is in a recent thread Doktor A mentioned that when replacing injectors the early production North American 2004 OM647's do not respond to injector coding. The later ones will. That indicates to me that there are two versions of either mapping or ECM architecture within the 2004 model year. FWIW. vic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo John View Post
There is a company that has a great tune from 2005-2008....It wont work on a 2003

I would like to purchase it but he never tried it on a 2004......

He would not guarantee it would work on a 2004......its the mystery year for him

Does anybody know the differences in these years when it comes to the engine/ecu/ecm

Thanks
**********************************

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Glad to hear that you are up and running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by montana View Post
... they were supposedly set up correctly an all but he said you are supposedly supost to tune them .. and his fine 35K machine will recognize them but can not talk to them... thanks to all
I haven't heard it referred to as "tuned", but I suppose that fits. A more common term is "coded".

My take on injector coding.

The injectors are not able to be manufactured to strict standards. The size of the "squirt" can vary. The injectors are tested and assigned a number code which relates to the "squirt" quantity.

When a new injector is installed then the specific injector code number can be submitted to the ECM (engine computer) so the injection quantity is a known value to the computer.

The ECM constantly monitors the engine operation which includes varying the injector "squirts" based upon feedback.

I replaced all 5 injectors in my 2004 with Bosch factory reconditioned injectors. As happened to your mechanic, I was unable to get the ECM to accept the new injector codes with my DAD. I never did code my injectors. My engine has been running fine for many tens of thousand miles.

My opinion.

The injector coding helps the ECM to trim in the fuel quantity more quickly after new injectors are installed. Because the ECM is constantly monitoring and adjusting the injected quantities based upon feedback, my theory is that eventually the ECM gets the injected quantity trimmed in whether the new injectors were coded or not. I stopped worrying about it quite quickly for my engine although I would have preferred to code my injectors.

All that said, I readily defer to any professional Sprinter technicians who disagree.

The following documentation should help to support my ideas above. vic

Attachment 55165

Particularly note the first sentence below:
The ECM compensates for both injector variations due to production tolerances as well as due to injector wear over the life of the injector.


Attachment 55161


Attachment 55162


Attachment 55163

20140522 edit: Given the 3200 RPM comment above, it may be more critical for injector coding if you often operate above that engine speed. I typically do not. On the other hand, above 3200 RPM a bit of difference in injector balance may just not be that critical as all the fuel injected will be burned efficiently.

Attachment 55164

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenDiesel View Post
The bosch factory trim is only +/- 3% on flow based on the "master" injector. It does not even have a trim for solenoid response variance (time from energizing solenoid to flow nozzle needle opening). Many other fuel injector manufacturers use the second trim.

The fuel balancing in ecm compensates flow +/- about 7%. It should hide a classification mismatch no problem. ...
Thanks for the details and percentages.

That is good to know. vic

P.S. - I would have just clicked the "Thanks", but I didn't want it to appear that I was just thanking you for support of my theory, and not thanking you for your percentage details and insight.

Edit
Quote:
Originally Posted by skydiver007 View Post
It was critical on my 05. It ran like **** when the injectors weren't coded. In the pictures you show the code is AAPT75.

Try coding one at a time. All 5 did not work with a DRB or DAD. One at a time worked fine on the DRBIII
In another thread it was revealed that Skydiver007 changed his injectors AND the ECM at the same time. That may be a factor in how critical the injector classification is. I swapped out 5 injectors with no ECM change or classification with everything running just fine. Maybe my ECM had already compensated for my particular engine so the new injectors were in range. Or maybe I was just lucky.
As always clicking on the blue arrow icon within any quote box will take you to the original post/thread. In this case there is documentation that didn't transfer with the quotes.

Another thread. (I didn't skim/review it tonight.)

ticking after injector change out
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=37763

vic
Added:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
...

It would be wrong to recommend not coding the injectors if at all possible. It will not be terminal to use the van until that can be done.

I never did code my 2004 injectors. The injectors were installed May, 2011 220,000 miles. 8 years 100,000+ miles ago.

vic
Added:
Opinion for newer NCV3 engines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
I can't speak for the newer engines, but I installed 5 each injectors in a T1N OM647 engine and never did classify/code them. May 2011. 220,000 miles now at 335,000+ miles.

My opinion.
If the engine is running correctly you are ok. It isn't like the injectors are going to be so far out of whack that overfueling could be a problem. I suspect that the injector is related to emissions compliance more than actual operation.

The ECM aka ECU has the ability to monitor and adjust flow rates over time.

Injector Classify Program Code Coding Misc.
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=63175

vic
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Old 10-15-2018, 09:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: Injector Classify Program Code Coding Misc.

Injector classify operation.

A recent thread got me thinking about the reasons behind needing to classify injectors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NORTON View Post
In WIS document no, ar07.16-d-1000a
Car eng. Eu3. 611 981 as of 446355
611 987 445784
612 981. 445787
Truck Euro 3. 611 891. 498370
611 987. 498370
612 981. 499019
If the injectors are replaced they must be always classified and the sequence marked for refitting
Quote:
Originally Posted by NORTON View Post
It was under the heading Remove and replace injectors
Doesn't say specifically but I assume they are referring to the last 6 digits of the engine number
Should have read Truck Euro 3 611 981 498370
Quote:
Originally Posted by NORTON View Post
Sorry it does say
Engine 611.981 /987 in models 901.6 902.6 903.6 904.6
Assuming that the ECM aka ECU is able to monitor and adjust injector flows (eventually), I wonder if injector classification is critical to eventual proper engine operation, or more driven by needing to comply with government emission standards/regulations when injectors are changed out/replaced.

Just a question. I have no data.

Added:
This comment by Owner somewhat supports the emissions factor for injector classify.

Thanks to Owner for the input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by owner View Post
Thats for Euro3 rated vehicles. I know here in oz our sprinters of that era are rated euro2 and are controlled by a CDI2 ecu, and they dont have injector classification requirements. I also know the same era om612 engine in my ml270 does need classification, because it is CDI2.5 and it has EGR, MAF and cats (still vacuum controlled turbo though). I think this is still Euro2 rated, but because its not a commercial vehicle it has different rules?

If your sprinter is like ours of that era, without EGR MAF and cats then I would say yours also doesnt support classification of injectors.

Whenbyou said the injector seats have been re-cut a few times, how much material has been removed? This could be why you got smoke. Usually you only recut if there is damage to the seat. Usually just a light scuff with emry is enough to clean the seat.
As to seat prep before injector installation.

A Sprinter tech I know uses a short bristle brass cup brush to clean the seats. He only uses abrasives if the seat appears damaged. I don't know where he obtained the small cup brush.

vic
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Last edited by Aqua Puttana; 10-16-2018 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 11-15-2019, 01:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: Injector Classify Program Code Coding Misc.

This PDF has some details on how the injector classification is determined. When an injector shop tests the injector, they are verifying 4 points on the theoretical injector plot.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Common_Rail_Test_Results_205_Legend.pdf (277.3 KB, 13 views)
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Old 12-18-2019, 02:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: Injector Classify Program Code Coding Misc.

Cheyenne indicates that the Autel MD808 Pro may be able to classify new injectors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheyenne View Post
The Autel MD808 PRO claims to be able to code injectors...

https://www.auteltech.com/mk2/3218

https://www.auteltech.com/u/cms/www/...101526itso.pdf

Quote from page 41 - 43...

"Injector Rate Adjustment
This function is used to adjust the injector rate for individual cylinders.
1) Select Injection rate adjustment from the service functions menu
(Figure 5-20) and press OK.
2) The tool communicates with the vehicle and reads the fault codes
memory. Follow the on-screen instructions to finish this procedure.
3) Then the tool will display as below. Press the corresponding number
button to enter new value for each cylinder.
Figure 5-25 Sample Injection Rate Adjustment Screen
The option keys at the bottom of the screen work as below.
[Edit 1] Edit Cylinder 1 injector code
[Edit 2] Edit Cylinder 2 injector code
[Edit 3] Edit Cylinder 3 injector code
[Edit 4] Edit Cylinder 4 injector code
[Back] Return to the previous menu
[Restore] Retain the old value
A. Enter New Value for Cylinder
From the Injection Rate Adjustment menu (Figure 5-21), select one option
and press OK. The screen displays as below. Input a new value for a
cylinder injector.
Figure 5-26 Sample Enter New Value for Cylinder
Refer to Starting Basic Inspection Quantity on page 37 for how to enter a
new value with soft keyboard."


I don't know if anyone has tried one yet so you may be the first!

Keith.
vic
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: Injector Classify Program Code Coding Misc.

Some general information about injector classify/coding.

Classify, Coding, Correction Code, Grading, Trims

I include some info that I liked. Anyone that is interested should go to the entire article by clicking the links.

*****
A basic overview.

"To code or not to code that is the question…..?

In days gone by, diesel injectors although cumbersome to fit, were generally seen as plug and play. However, since the advent of common rail diesel systems, and in turn common rail injectors, the garage can often be left confused or unsure as to whether an Injector needs coding or not.

Common rail diesel systems offers a number of benefits over traditional diesel systems, such as improved performance, lowered fuel consumption and quieter engines. Another significant advantage of a common rail system is its ability to uniquely reduce emissions, the buzz word on the lips of every Eurocrat.

So why code injectors? An injector code, typically known as an IMA code (Bosch and Siemens) or a calibration code (Delphi), is a code that is programmed to the ECU for accurate communication and Injection control. With ever increasing emissions legislation and tightening of limits, vehicle manufacturers have been forced to more accurately control the flow of fuel going into the engine to optimize the efficiency of the combustion process and control emissions within acceptable limits...

The IMA coding is an industry standard: Injector Menge Abgleichung (injector Quantity Offset). When an injector goes through the OE test it generates an IMA code which identifies where in the tolerance range the needle and nozzle assembly fit, this allows the ECU to vary the fueling accordingly and optimize the engine performance. Failure to code in the injectors can result in several issues:"

A look at Diesel Injector Coding - Vinny Patel
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/look-...al-vinny-patel

*****

"Workshop’s relationship with coding
Some workshops question the importance or relevance for coding on high, 100k mileage vehicle due to engine wear and tear. Many simply believe that that the ECU can automatically adjust the injector performance using closed loop control to bring the injector back to OEM standards during a “re-learn” period.

While this is technically true, this nonetheless misses the fundamental point of the need to validate if an injector is functioning back to OEM standards once refitted, or if it requires further adjustment."

++ My comment.
Many T1N's are now at high miles.
Testing reports posted here on Sprinter-source show that very few high miles Bosch injectors will perform to OEM standards. When changing out a single injector, is there any real advantage in classifying/coding a single injector when the rest are likely out of spec? If an owner has the means to code a new injector, by all means it should be done. If not...
++

"So is CR injector coding just a marketing gimmick to tell workshops they need to invest in another piece of equipment?

The answer from any serious player in the diesel industry is a resounding “No”. Coding is fundamentally the most important aspect of CR injector calibration because new and reconditioned injectors alike need to be re-aligned to deliver the correct quantity of fuel at the right time during the combustion stroke, to meet stringent emissions standards."

++ One interpretation.
Note that the IMA coding number technically should be updated when an injector is reconditioned. FWIW. The Bosch reconditioned injectors which I received appeared to have the original unchanged tags/information.
++

Common Rail Injector Coding & The Hartridge Mission
http://www.hartridge.com/blog/inject...tridge-mission

vic
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"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

Last edited by Aqua Puttana; 01-12-2020 at 04:05 PM.
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