Sprinter-Forum    
 

Go Back   Sprinter-Forum > T1N Sprinters > T1N Talk

T1N Talk General Discussions related to T1N Sprinters.


 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-08-2016, 07:14 PM   #1
sprinterpirate
not an electrician.
 
sprinterpirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Far, far away.
Posts: 194
Thanks: 122
Thanked 30 Times in 24 Posts
Default Best Offroad Rim & Tire Combo for T1N!

Hi folks, I'm very motivated to settle on a new set of tires soon, and new rims if necessary. 2004 140” 2500. I want a wider footprint and bigger diameter. However, wider tires on these rims seems to be pushing it, so I'm thinking 7.5" or 8" wide rims might go a long way. I also want bigger, more offroad capable tires—but I don’t want it to be too noisy on the highway. Yup, I want it all.

I have been reading a number of threads on the subject—lots of tire recommendations, and it can be hard to sort through it all! Not so much info on rims though. I’m hoping I can accumulate all the info here so I can make the best decision—I will edit this first post as new info comes my way. Please share your thoughts!

Quote:
TIRES
Stock T1N Tires:
  • 225/75R16
Issues to consider with bigger tires:
  • Fender clearance
  • Inside weel well rubbing
  • Too much width can reduce "contact pressure", add rotating mass, and increase rolling resistance (i.e: lower fuel economy)
Ideal AT tire size:
  • Aspect ratio should be >70, ideally closer to 80. This means larger diameter rims are a compromise.
  • If the tires are much wider than the rims you may wish to have bead sealant installed, to avoid what Midwestdrifter experienced (post 8)
  • Max size I have heard successfully mounted on the T1N without lift kit is 245/75R16.
Tires to consider:
  • Cooper Discoverer A/T3: http://us.coopertire.com/Tires/Light...ERER-A-T3.aspx
  • Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac: https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires/wrangler-duratrac
    • Supposedly fairly capable offroad and relatively quiet on highway
    • Interesting to note: you can have two duratracs of the same size, but with drastically different ratings (C rated vs E rated; 2205 lbs vs 3042 lbs max load). Must make sure to get the right rating! See, for instance, product code 312017027 vs 312249027.
  • Goodyear AT Adventure: https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires...rain-adventure
    • Local Goodyear dealer recommended these. They're a bit cheaper, wear longer, and have kevlar sidewalls. Apparently less road noise, but a bit of a compromise for offroad.
  • BF Goodrich All-Terrain T/A KO2: https://shop.bfgoodrichtires.com/tir...errain-t-a-ko2
    • Midwestdrifter's review (from below): "They handle just fine on the highway, the noise is acceptable for an A/T tire and they're decently stiff. Traction is great in almost all conditions including rain and snow. These tires use a softer compound so they wear faster than dedicated highway tires. Thus far it looks like I'll probably get about 35 to 45,000 miles out of a five tire rotation."
    • In other posts, people have noted that these are pretty noisy.
  • Michelin LTX M/S2: http://www.michelinman.com/US/en/tir...tx-m-s-2.html#
    • This is what I have right now, in the 225/75R16 size. My sense is that I want something a bit more agressive, but I do like how they handle on road. For whatever reason, I haven't gotten the longevity out of these that others have experienced...
Quote:
RIMS
Stock T1N rim:
  • 16” Diameter, 6” wide
  • 5 bolt pattern, 130mm spacing
  • ??? offset [does anyone know this?]
  • ??? backspacing [does anyone know this?]
  • ??? weight rating per rim [does anyone know this?] - MY BEST GUESS: APPROX 2400LBS
  • Center Bore: 84.1 mm
  • Lug Size: M14 x 1.5
Issues to consider with bigger rims:
  • Spindle clearance [i.e: correct offset]
  • Weight rating. So far this seems like the biggest obstacle--finding rims that will support the Sprinter GVWR.
Ideal AT rim size:
  • 5 bolt pattern, 130mm spacing
  • 16"
    • any bigger would mean rim-strikes when tires are deflated for offroad
    • any smaller may be less stable with the larger diameter tires.
  • 7.5" - 8" diameter
    • [this is just a guess for now]
  • ??? offset
    • [I assume that rim width changes the amount of offset that’s appropriate]
  • ??? backspacing
    • [am I right in thinking this should remain the same as stock?]
Rims to consider:
  • Method Racing 301 Rim: http://www.methodracewheels.com/prod...rd-matte-black
    • Part #: MR30177553550 - this is not listed on the website, but it is available. I called them up, this is what they suggested for the T1N.
    • MSRP = $205 each
    • 17x7.5|5x130mm|50/6.2"
    • Some issues with these rims:
      • This rim diameter is larger than ideal, but its the smallest rim diameter they offer that fits the T1N. On the plus side, more 17" tires are available.
      • Those "beadlock bolts" are fake
  • Vision Wheel 375 Warrior Rim: http://www.visionwheel.com/wheel.cfm?id=1088
    • Part #: 375-6632GBMF45
    • $95 on Amazon and Summit Racing
    • 16x6.5|5x130mm|45/5.45"
    • 3,450 lb load rating!
    • Rim diameter looks good, but:
      • Width is only .5" wider than stock--merely a cosmetic upgrade
Thanks for any and all input!!!

Last edited by sprinterpirate; 12-09-2016 at 01:01 AM.
sprinterpirate is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sprinterpirate For This Useful Post:
quillaja (07-20-2017)
Old 12-08-2016, 07:24 PM   #2
Midwestdrifter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 11,374
Thanks: 2,238
Thanked 7,541 Times in 4,770 Posts
Default Re: Best Offroad Rim & Tire Combo for T1N!

What terrain do you plan on driving on? Adding additional width won't provide any improvement in traction depending on what surface you're driving on. Honestly the best improvement is by having a tire as close to an aspect ratio of 85 as possible and as tall as possible.

Have a read. http://www.expeditionswest.com/resea...tion_rev1.html

A wider tire will also decrease your fuel economy by a few percent in some cases.

You want to stick with the steel wheel for off-road service. Steel wheels are much tougher than alloy and will bend instead of crack when they encounter a serious impact.
__________________
2004 T1N | Overland Conversion in Process Completed...For now... | 187,000 miles | 140" | High Roof | My Build Thread
Another Random Blog | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com

Last edited by Midwestdrifter; 12-08-2016 at 07:42 PM.
Midwestdrifter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Midwestdrifter For This Useful Post:
sprinterpirate (12-08-2016)
Old 12-08-2016, 07:42 PM   #3
sprinterpirate
not an electrician.
 
sprinterpirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Far, far away.
Posts: 194
Thanks: 122
Thanked 30 Times in 24 Posts
Default Re: Best Offroad Rim & Tire Combo for T1N!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwestdrifter View Post
What terrain do you plan on driving on? Adding additional width won't provide any improvement in traction depending on what surface you're driving on. Honestly the best improvement is by having a tire as close to an aspect ratio of 85 as possible and as tall as possible.

Have a read. http://www.expeditionswest.com/resea...tion_rev1.html
Thanks for the quick reply Midwestdrifter--I really appreciate it! I would love to be convinced that this is the case, but it somehow doesn't match with my gut. First thing to note is that most offroad vehicles have much wider tires than the Sprinter to begin with. Here is a quote from that article you sent me:

Quote:
Important note: For the sake of the following details, assume that the test vehicle is 5,000 lbs., and a narrow tire would be considered a 33x10.5 R15, and a wide tire would be considered a 33x12.5 R15, both run at 15psi for trail use.
Note that the example is about 2/3 the weight of the sprinter, and even so, a "narrow" tire is 10.5" wide! My 225/75R16 tires are 8.9" wide according to the website listed above, but when I measure the tread contact patch, its less than 7" wide.

One argument given in that article is "contact pressure". As far as I can tell, the "contact pressure" of a Sprinter with 245/75R15 tires exceeds that of the example above.

On this thread, people are putting tires as big as 285/70/17: http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41802 Not that I should do it just because they do (in fact, I imagine some of the push for bigger tires is image/ego... ) but there seems to be something to this. I look at much lighter, more offroad capable vehicles than the Sprinter and they seem to have wider tires in general....
sprinterpirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 07:48 PM   #4
Midwestdrifter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 11,374
Thanks: 2,238
Thanked 7,541 Times in 4,770 Posts
Default Re: Best Offroad Rim & Tire Combo for T1N!

If you look at the chart on that page it shows that for a vehicle of 7 to 9000 pounds the ideal section width is approximately 10 to 11 inches or 250 mm. So 245/75 is a good compromise. 245/75 mounts just fine on the stock steel rims. It is a bit taller, but will clear the mudflaps as long as you tie them back a little or trim them slightly.

I am running BFG KO2 in this size and I have been very impressed with their performance and handling.

The main advantage of having a high aspect ratio is that when you air the tire down your contact patch becomes much larger. however it is narrow which allows you to move through soft materials with minimal effort including sand and mud.
__________________
2004 T1N | Overland Conversion in Process Completed...For now... | 187,000 miles | 140" | High Roof | My Build Thread
Another Random Blog | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com
Midwestdrifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 07:52 PM   #5
Midwestdrifter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 11,374
Thanks: 2,238
Thanked 7,541 Times in 4,770 Posts
Default Re: Best Offroad Rim & Tire Combo for T1N!

If you're operating on deep sand or mud or snow having a wide tire for flotation has serious advantages. However if you're operating on shallow mud or sand that is only a portion of your tires height deep cutting through the sand/snow/mud to the hard material underneath will provide superior traction. A narrow tire will cut through while a wide tire will simply spin on the slick surface above.

Regardless of whether you go wide or narrow having a high aspect ratio is always advantageous for off-road operation.
__________________
2004 T1N | Overland Conversion in Process Completed...For now... | 187,000 miles | 140" | High Roof | My Build Thread
Another Random Blog | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com
Midwestdrifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 08:02 PM   #6
sprinterpirate
not an electrician.
 
sprinterpirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Far, far away.
Posts: 194
Thanks: 122
Thanked 30 Times in 24 Posts
Default Re: Best Offroad Rim & Tire Combo for T1N!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwestdrifter View Post
If you look at the chart on that page it shows that for a vehicle of 7 to 9000 pounds the ideal section width is approximately 10 to 11 inches or 250 mm. So 245/75 is a good compromise. 245/75 mounts just fine on the stock steel rims. It is a bit taller, but will clear the mudflaps as long as you tie them back a little or trim them slightly.
Wow, great--that's really good to hear! I have heard some folks worry about popping beads or too much sidewall bulge when the tire width/rim width ratio is too high, but I assume that on install it looks fine to you.

That's about as much evidence I need to consider that size viable for my wheels. BTW, your build is badass!
sprinterpirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 08:12 PM   #7
sprinterpirate
not an electrician.
 
sprinterpirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Far, far away.
Posts: 194
Thanks: 122
Thanked 30 Times in 24 Posts
Default Re: Best Offroad Rim & Tire Combo for T1N!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwestdrifter View Post
If you're operating on deep sand or mud or snow having a wide tire for flotation has serious advantages.
Yeah, and this is the problem I have had. In spite of letting air out, I have still dug myself into soft sand a couple times. Though its not my primary use, I'm planning a trip to Baja in a couple weeks, and I also do some desert trips on occasion.

I consider the 245/75R16 choice acceptable, and it fits the budget better since I wouldn't need to purchase rims. However I'm still interested in considering other rims. But if I go that route they ought to be steel, and they better be cheap! Otherwise I would be better off getting at least a front lift from van compass!

Midwestdrifter--how are those tires on the highway? And what are you comparing them to?
sprinterpirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 08:12 PM   #8
Midwestdrifter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 11,374
Thanks: 2,238
Thanked 7,541 Times in 4,770 Posts
Default Re: Best Offroad Rim & Tire Combo for T1N!

I was a bit worried that the 245s may not mount quite right but they specify a 6.5 inch rim so the vans rims are only slightly smaller than recommended. The stock rims have a pretty large offset so having a wider tire like that actually provides additional protection for the rim against scratches from rock strikes or curbs.

I did have a slow leak on two of my wheels after installing the new tires. I'm not sure if it was due to rim corrosion or the fact that I was mounting a narrow wheel. I had the tire shop install bead sealant and remount the tires which fixed the problem.

Thus far they have been wearing evenly and ride fine so I have no complaints. Because the 245 tires have a higher load capacity you'll want to run lower pressures than recommended for the 225's.

Fully loaded at gross vehicle weight I run around 55 front 65 rear. You can go higher but it may affect how the tires wear and makes the ride a bit stuff.

Resist the urge to air your tires down to 10 or 15 psi like some of the off-road jeeps owners do. First start by inflating your tires to the correct pressure for the load. Measure the height from the ground to the edge of the rim. Then let air out of the tire until the height is reduced by 25%. This is your ideal height for off-road operation. Be aware that when you air down this much your top speed is limited.
__________________
2004 T1N | Overland Conversion in Process Completed...For now... | 187,000 miles | 140" | High Roof | My Build Thread
Another Random Blog | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com

Last edited by Midwestdrifter; 12-08-2016 at 08:18 PM.
Midwestdrifter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Midwestdrifter For This Useful Post:
micha (10-02-2019), sprinterpirate (12-08-2016)
Old 12-08-2016, 08:16 PM   #9
Midwestdrifter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 11,374
Thanks: 2,238
Thanked 7,541 Times in 4,770 Posts
Default Re: Best Offroad Rim & Tire Combo for T1N!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprinterpirate View Post
Yeah, and this is the problem I have had. In spite of letting air out, I have still dug myself into soft sand a couple times. Though its not my primary use, I'm planning a trip to Baja in a couple weeks, and I also do some desert trips on occasion.

I consider the 245/75R16 choice acceptable, and it fits the budget better since I wouldn't need to purchase rims. However I'm still interested in considering other rims. But if I go that route they ought to be steel, and they better be cheap! Otherwise I would be better off getting at least a front lift from van compass!

Midwestdrifter--how are those tires on the highway? And what are you comparing them to?
They handle just fine on the highway, the noise is acceptable for an A/T tire and they're decently stiff. Traction is great in almost all conditions including rain and snow. These tires use a softer compound so they wear faster than dedicated highway tires. Thus far it looks like I'll probably get about 35 to 45,000 miles out of a five tire rotation.

I am comparing them to the BFG dedicated commercial highway tires that came with my van. Which were in the stock size.

These BFG KO2 tires have some seriously beefy sidewalls. A rough way to estimate how durable a tire is to check its weight against other tire brands.
__________________
2004 T1N | Overland Conversion in Process Completed...For now... | 187,000 miles | 140" | High Roof | My Build Thread
Another Random Blog | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com

Last edited by Midwestdrifter; 12-08-2016 at 08:18 PM.
Midwestdrifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 06:43 PM   #10
OldWest
T1N Westfalia
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,127
Thanks: 217
Thanked 633 Times in 481 Posts
Default Re: Best Offroad Rim & Tire Combo for T1N!

16" Rims

Steel: 16x6.0
Alloy: 16x6.5 (double-check each model year)

Ronal 44: No longer available in US but similar to alloy 16x6.5.

Vision Warrior 375: 16x6.5
Vision Valor 413: 16x6.5

G-Wagen R6 Atik or Asharoth?: 16x7.5 (unknown load rating).

Tirerack used to have CW Borbet and other choices.
OldWest is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to OldWest For This Useful Post:
quillaja (07-20-2017)

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 03:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.