Snow tires for 144: recommendations?

kwai

New member
Hi, looking for recommendations on snow tires. While california based, I also spend months at a time in New England (MA, NY, VT), Idaho and other places with much snow. Right now it has the VanCoFour Season (LT245/75 R16)

The gentleman who installed the Van Compass suspension kit (in Salt Lake City) recommended the Goodyear All Terrain T/A KO2 All-Season. Definitely has more aggressive tread...

So now, slush and definitely some rain. in NM and UT (plus CA) there's some pretty mellow dirt/off road in the mix.

Thoughts and experiences appreciated.
Thanks
Kwai

PS. Van in question basic cargo, in conversion process and will have some weight but not super heavy.
 

Onefin

Well-known member
Hi, looking for recommendations on snow tires. While california based, I also spend months at a time in New England (MA, NY, VT), Idaho and other places with much snow. Right now it has the VanCoFour Season (LT245/75 R16)

The gentleman who installed the Van Compass suspension kit (in Salt Lake City) recommended the Goodyear All Terrain T/A KO2 All-Season. Definitely has more aggressive tread...

Goodyear would be the duratrac. BFG Goodrich is the T/A K02. That said, I’ve had both and prefer the BFG over the Goodyear
.

So now, slush and definitely some rain. in NM and UT (plus CA) there's some pretty mellow dirt/off road in the mix.

Thoughts and experiences appreciated.
Thanks
Kwai

PS. Van in question basic cargo, in conversion process and will have some weight but not super heavy.
The BFG is pretty good in all conditions. I’ve had them on many vehicles, and while not particularly amazing at anything, they have been good at most things encountered in Colorado, Utah and California.
There are many worse tire choices you could make.

You’ll want weight over the rear axle on winter. Even if just sandbags.
 
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Which tire depends on your snow.

I've found the Duratrac to be the best all around A/T snow tires handsdown no questions asked. (save for dedicated snow tires).

I've had everything from BFG KOs to Michelins to Cooper's to Mastercrafts on my trucks and Jeeps ... nothing beats the Duratracs. The BFG Kos tend to pack with snow and mud and require more wheel speed to shed mud/snow.

Duratracs are found on first responder SUVs and public utility trucks all over the country...

However, in order to be such good snow tires, they have to be soft...for our heavy vans, they wear quickly. I have 35/12.5/17 on my 144 and they are wearing incredibly fast. I will be taken them off before too much longer in favor of a harder tire (likely Nittos or Toyos). As they wear, they get louder and some sizes are louder than others.

The Goodyear's also tend to require frequent balancing and will flat spot if left to sit for a while ( they round out after a few miles).
 

kwai

New member
Thanks VT and OneFin for your thoughts.

Perhaps I should have posed this question slightly differently: does anyone use my current tire (The VanCoFour Season) for much snow driving? (In other words how bad is it ;)?)

Duratracs: how fast do they wear? Any idea how long you would run them? And which Toyo or Nitto would you get?

Choices, choices...
 
Another thing I forgot to mention...if you are going into snow country, in order to be legal (and not run chains), your tires will need severe snow rating. (Mountain peak symbol). Some will say this is a non-issue and some will say it is an issue...

For the Nittos, I am looking a the Exo Grapplers - severe snow rated. I drive all over the place regardless of the weather. Nitto has a great reputation and is known to have really smooth & tough tires. The Nitto reps claim their Ridge Grappler is as good in the snow as the Exo grappler but prod mgmt opted not get the severe snow rating for anyhting but the Exo series (since the test costs money and they did not want to compete with the Exo series.) However, the Exo tread compound is supposedly softer than the Ridge.

Nitto uses a much smaller belt in their tires - so they claim it gives them more control (better balance and roundness), higher strength and lighter weight than their parent Toyo (and others in the industry.

The Duratrac is an old tire with old mfr techniques...I'm just ready to try something different.

Also, I will replace the tires when they have 30% tread life remaining as snow & mud performance tends to get quite a bit worse much beyond that. If I am feeling motivated, I will sell them at 50% life and get a new set...

I'll have to measure the wear on the Duratracs to give you a good answer - the wear is quite noticeable in the 10k miles or so I have put on it...however, to be fair, I should qualify that remarks a bit. I like a on a very steep residential road with multiple full lock to lock switchbacks. Tire scrub happens all the time...and I can also spin a tire/lift a wheel coming into my driveway, so this will also impact tire wear. As noted above, I am running a 35/12.50/17 on my 144 - and finding a wheel that is the correct width for our vans & this tire width has been problematic. I'm running a 7.5 or 8" Method 301 -I forget - anyhow, it is too narrow for a 12.5 tire and it tends to round/buldge the tread a bit. I run 38-40# in the tire to maintain even tire wear as a result of this 'rounding' - I could theoretically run 35# at times given the light weight of my van...

Onefin's comments about weight over the rear axle is correct...and his comments about the BFGs are spot on - a generally good tire, just not great at anything. Expedition Portal did a shoot out on tires (although no duratrac was included)...and they gave Cooper the award.
 

rube

New member
Correction - Severe snow rated tires (snowflake symbol) are not legally required in California during R1 and R2 chain control. M + S rated are acceptable. See this link to the CA DOT:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/cttravel/chain-controls.html

1 Snow-tread Tires: The California Vehicle Code, Section 558 defines a snow-tread tire as follows, "A 'Snow-tread tire' is a tire which has a relatively deep and aggressive tread pattern compared with conventional passenger tread pattern". Snow-tread tires can be identified by examining the sidewall of the tire where the letters MS, M/S, M+S or the words MUD AND SNOW have been stamped into the sidewall.




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Correction - Severe snow rated tires (snowflake symbol) are not legally required in California during R1 and R2 chain control. M + S rated are acceptable. See this link to the CA DOT:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/cttravel/chain-controls.html

1 Snow-tread Tires: The California Vehicle Code, Section 558 defines a snow-tread tire as follows, "A 'Snow-tread tire' is a tire which has a relatively deep and aggressive tread pattern compared with conventional passenger tread pattern". Snow-tread tires can be identified by examining the sidewall of the tire where the letters MS, M/S, M+S or the words MUD AND SNOW have been stamped into the sidewall.




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Well that's cool for Cali...right on

Maybe it's Canada? And other states then?
 

rube

New member
Well that's cool for Cali...right on

Maybe it's Canada? And other states then?


Well the OP was asking about CA, so I figured this would be helpful info. It’s probably posted to other states DOT sites.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Wrinkledpants

2017 144WB 4x4
Thanks VT and OneFin for your thoughts.

Perhaps I should have posed this question slightly differently: does anyone use my current tire (The VanCoFour Season) for much snow driving? (In other words how bad is it ;)?)

Duratracs: how fast do they wear? Any idea how long you would run them? And which Toyo or Nitto would you get?

Choices, choices...
We had that tire for a short period of time as it's the factory tire on any 4x4. it was adequate in the snow. I'd say the van felt slightly more capable than a basic AWD SUV with all seasons if the Sprinter was lightly loaded. With 1500 lbs in the rear, it felt a lot better. Is it a great tire? No - but it's not so bad that I would stay home when I'd otherwise be out driving with a different tire.

There's a big difference between winter in VT and winter in the Rockies. VT sees perpetual winter, where in the Rockies, you can be in nasty winter conditions and 20 minutes later be at a lower elevation with dry, warm pavement. You're also going to spend a significant amount of time on dry pavement, so you don't want to get too crazy with a snow tire if you're from Cali.

I think any M/S rated tired could be an improvement over the Vanco tires. I would not go wider than 245 if you're going to stay lightly weighted. Unless you're going offroad, my choice would not be an AT tire that some have suggested. Something like a Cooper Discover M/S or a Michelin LTX M/S 2 (one of my favorite all around tires ever). That LTX tire was quiet, excellent wear, good in the snow, and good in the dry. We had a set of these on our Murano, and compared to all the expensive tires we'd mount on our Porsches, that LTX tire was the most impressive tire I've ever owned.

We've got 255/85/16 Cooper ST Maxx mounted to our Sprinter, but the noise and handling were a big tradeoff compared to the Vanco tires. For your driving environment and knowing you're lightly weighted, I'd go with the LTX MS 2 (or whatever it's called now). I'd only deviate if you plan on spending a whole winter in a northern state, or if you really needed to spend time on jeep trails (not just forest roads).
 

aksotar

2017 4x4 144 Cargo
I used KO2s last Winter, no real problems getting around (much better ice traction than the old KOs) but I did get Nokian LT2s that are studded for this Winter..
I’ve always ran studded tires on my full size trucks here, I am pulling a 2 or 4 place snowmachine trailer and enjoy the traction difference that only studs can provide (my buds are loving the Sprinter and the room to gear up inside compared to our trucks)
but I live in Alaska, have 45 yrs of experience driving here, I know my needs, conditions and equipment...
you can put an Olympic Champion on crappy equipment and they could still win but put a crappy athelete on world class gear and they really won’t do much better...
tire performance is somewhat of an opinion, nothing makes up for experience and knowing how to best use what you have to get it’s best performance... from the wide variety of locals and conditions you are talking about, there is no best tire, just lots of good ones (and lots of opinions)...
 
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jimmyzamp

cross country sprinter
I just installed BFG TA on the rear of my 2004 sprinter to deal with the early snow here in Colorado. I run 245/75/16 front and rear.left the Michelin M/S tires in the front.Now the ASR system is activating on dry roads.Has anyone experienced this problem.
 

Ski Trip

Member
+1 for studs (and smart driving), however my current situation will not accommodate studded tires in the picture right now, winter or otherwise. I may go for the on-road tire chains. just use them when things are super gnarly out there. i do have 4x4 and keep tires fresh. however, I just got alloys painted black and would not want to scratch them too bad w the chains.
 

Wrinkledpants

2017 144WB 4x4
I just installed BFG TA on the rear of my 2004 sprinter to deal with the early snow here in Colorado. I run 245/75/16 front and rear.left the Michelin M/S tires in the front.Now the ASR system is activating on dry roads.Has anyone experienced this problem.
If the circumference front to rear is more than a few mm different, the vehicle will think you're slightly spinning a tire. You really shouldn't ever run two different tires front to rear on a modern vehicle given how sensitive the ABS system is.
 

skippytdi

Member
cooper discoverers st maxx's with studs in the rear. leaving the studs on through the hot season does no damage they are a very low profile design and very hard. its a very low wear tire also i drive a 7500 lbs t1n like i stole it around corners and the fronts have lasted me five years. they won't grip like a siped super soft snow tire but what else will? only another super soft siped snow tire...
 

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