Towing???

Hi everybody, I have a 2011 Mercedes sprinter and a 8,000 lbs travel trailer.
The trailer is 8,000 lbs DRY!, so about 9,000 with water and diesel for the generator.
The towing capacity on my sprinter is 5,000 lbs.
We drove it for 60 miles on rural roads and it was fine going about 55 mph.
We are planning a road-trip through the Appalachian mountains, what I need to know is has anybody else attempted this, will my sprinter be able to pull it up those mountains, and will I damage the truck.

-Thanks

You might damage the van's structure underneath, throw out alignment, over-work your differential+ transmission+ turbo+ brakes, and risk being at fault for an overloaded van in an accident, risk fines for not obtaining/being unable to obtain state commercial permits (over 14,000# total weight) etc etc.
It has been done without damage, 1 member towed 14000# trailer slowly to the dump.
It is not recommended, but solely for the high risk taker, MB will not fix under warranty, they've got the tools and specs to test for overloading.

Who the hell cares about the damn vehicle or trailer...

You sir..are a reckless and dangerous moron.... has it occurred to you that not only do you risk killing yourself, that you might in fact kill others?

OrioN just said it all!!!

Hey, folks... at least he *asked*.

Florida's kinda flat... the effect of an overweight trailer won't really appear until you get into odd situations...
such as coasting downhill and finding the trailer trying to pass you.
It starts swerving side-to-side behind you, pulling the tail of the Sprinter side to side.
You just know that applying the Sprinter brakes before the trailer brakes is only going to make it worse....

--dick (learned (and somehow survived) through experience 40 years ago.. and no brakes on the trailer...)

OK everybody...I will buy a truck to pull the trailer. Just wanted some advice

Hi sprintersneedsmoke,
Is your Sprinter a single rear wheel on each side (2500) or a dual wheels on
each side (3500)?
If you bought the MB installed trailer towing package, in your 2011, you also
will have the trailer stability module.
What is the wheelbase on your Sprinter? Longer wheelbase Sprinters (not the extended rear) have higher towing
capacities.
If you have a short rear end 3500 Sprinter, your towing capacity (with the factory
installed hitch and an electronic brake controller (from the aftermarket)) your towing capacity is actually 7,500 lbs.
If you purchase a weight distributing hitch, you can increase that to around 10,000 lbs.
The Sprinter will tow that weight, if you drive it correctly....manaully downshifting whenever
the % engine LOaD gets > 85%.
MIght have to limit your speed to around 60-65 mph, but with a huge trailer on the back
that will help you with the mileage alot.
You would need a ScanGauge II/UltraGauge EM/DashDAQ to be able to monitor things like the
%engine LOaD, coolant termperature.
Essentially, I agree with the others if you have a 2500 Sprinter with no electronic trailer stability control or electric brake controller.
You would be very unwise to attempt to tow something that large with the smaller lighter
Sprinters.
If you have a 3500 with Dual Rear Wheels, it's alot more doable as you have a better gear ratio for towing (4.187).
Hope this helps,
Roger

I've towed quite a bit with a Sprinter.... and with more weight than the incredibly intelligent engineers (no- their lawyers) suggested.

Unless things have changed, buying a weight distribution system will NOT change how much the lawyers at MB think you can tow. The factory hitch is set up for 500/5000 going much over that wouldn't be real bright. Curtis used to have, don't know if they still do, a class 4 hitch 1,200/12,000.

I wouldn't go THAT over weight..... the truck can probably deal with it but the computer at some point won't.

The trailer I used to pull with my Sprinter 2004/2500 was sold to a couple we knew who was towing it with an E350.... I used ACTIVE sway bars they used NO sway bars - it is now in the dump.... she rolled it (her second) the ol semi passed, got it going back and forth - NO ONE IS GOING TO SAVE THAT!

Yeh bigger truck would be better (or lighter trailer). And you do know that ALL OEM trailer tires are junk right?

Larry

larry said:

the ol semi passed, got it going back and forth

Click to expand...

I can't begin to describe the feeling you get when you see the trailer appear in your side-view mirror... flying through the air, landing on only its outer wheel, squashing its spring, then rebounding up and disappearing out-of-sight as it leaps up and heads back over towards the passenger's side...

--dick (1965 3500 pound VW Squareback, 3600 pound (measured afterwards) enclosed U-Haul trailer... 65 mph downhill and increasing to bring it back under control))

Hi Sailquik. Do you know anywhere in the Los Angeles area where one can buy and have installed the ScanGaugeII? We're about to purchase a new 3500 dually rated at 7500 lbs to tow our 6800 lb (fully loaded) Airstream, and you seem to feel that this is very important! Will the installation in anyway void the Mercedes warranty? Do you think that this is a reasonable tow vehicle for this purpose? We tow about 30% of the time, but they tend to be long hauls with significant grades, temperatures, and winds involved.--SoCal to Texas, or SoCal to Hood River, for example. The Sprinter appeals to us because of its vast storage capacity and superior mileage claims (especially when not towing). We only recently became aware of the increased towing capacity of the 3500, and would never consider purchasing a vehicle for towing that boes beyond its capacity. And yes, we use a weight distribution hitch with sway bars, of course!

Also,

Thanks!

Hi Gecko,
You can install the ScanGauge II yourself.
It's very easy.
Simply remove the cover over the fuse panel under your dashboard
on the left side.
Inside you will find a smaller cover (normally black) that covers the
OBD-2 Diagnostics port.
I ended up removing that small cover and then using a hot knife to
cut some clearance for the ScanGauge II / OBD-2 interface connector.
Reinstalled the cover and all is good.
I've heard some MB dealers have tried to use the installation of a ScanGauge II
or other aftermarket performance monitoring system as a way to avoid doing
warranty repairs, but there is pretty much nothing the ScanGauge II can cause in the way of issues/problems as it is completely passive and just tells you the values being generated by the various sensors.
If you start using it to clear DTC codes (it won't clear the events from the Sprinter's ECM
memory) then I can see that their claim to the SGII causing some harm to the Sprinter's
overall electronics and diagnostics systems.
You can buy them online from various places and the folks at Linear Logic are great to work with.
Just had my 3 year old ScanGauge II upgraded to all the latest firmware for $25.00 and they shipped in back in just a few days.
Even sent a complete new manual on what the device will do.
The upgrade added signifcantly more data points that can be monitored.
Also look at the UltraGauge EM (a few more data points at the same time) but it measures
some data points differently than SG-II.
There is also the DASH DAQ for significantly more $$ that does about the same thing.
I have all 3 and have tried each of them, but tend to like the way the ScanGauge II
works better than the others.
Your 8,600 lb. Airstream on being pulled by a Sprinter concerns me a bit.
I tow a 4,500 Lb. Cargo trailer that has about the same wind silouette as your Airstream
but is considerably lighter.
The mileage with the trailer is a bit disappointing, and if you are hauling that much weight
up long hot grades, you'll be down a 2nd or 3rd gear with the heavily laden 18 wheelers I think.
A travel trailer < 7,500 lbs. might be ok..... I'm not real comfortable with 8,600 lbs.
The TSP should help with control, but I'm more worried about the overall LOD level
with a trailer that wide and heavy.
Roger

Roger,
I think he said his trailer weighed *6800* lbs, not *8600* lbs.

Joel,
Thanks, my error!
I've corrected it, but I still think 6.8 K lbs. is alot to expect a Sprinter V6 CRD to
haul over mountain passes in summer heat.
Roger

pretty much nothing the ScanGauge II can cause in the way of issues/problems as it is completely passive

Click to expand...

That's not quite 100% accurate, ...
The ScanGauge (and all of the similar monitors) *does* inject traffic into the OBD socket... it actively interrogates for parameters, it doesn't just watch numbers go by on their way to something else.
Its traffic load is *minimal* (perhaps 4 or 5 queries per second, when dozens of messages are already being flung about), but it is not "completely passive"

--dick (lover of SG)

Thanks Dick!
I stand corrected.
Have you ever heard of a ScanGauge II or similar device actually creating
issues for the Sprinter electronics?
I'm wondering if this is a "myth" created by some dealer (or MB USA) as a
"when all else fails way to avoid paying for warranty covered electronics issues?
I have heard of a couple of cases where owners damaged the OBD-II connection
under the dash (plugging and unplugging devices all the time) and it was not covered
by warranty as the OBD-II port is not really intended for consumer use.
Roger

Thanks all for the input from everybody. So Roger, what is the disappointing mileage that you get when towing? We're getting 10 average with our Suburban, 9 for prolonged headwind days, and 11 with tailwinds or a fair amount of downhill. What kind of mileage are you getting highway when NOT towing? This is most of the driving we'll be doing.

In the 2000 Suburban, we do have a (standard) transmission temp gauge in the instrument cluster, and the Suburban's 4 speed transmission will heat up (almost never the engine temp, btw) going up steep grades in the summer. Because max torque and hp are reached at high rpm with the gas engine, it will drop into second gear to rev up in the low 4000's to maintain speed. Whenever it does this for more than a few minutes (like the long grade northbound at Mt. Shasta, for example) in hot weather, the transmission will heat up, although it's never gone all the way to redline. If we can coax the transmission to stay in third and work at lower revs, it does not heat up. We change the transmission fluid annually, regardless of mileage, and would continue to do so in the Sprinter 3500.

The Chevy 6.0 develops 300hp and 355 ft lb of torque, coupled to a 3.73 differential. So this is 1324 ft lb to the rear wheels. The Sprinter's 325 ft lb coupled to the 4.11 is 1335 ft lb to the rear wheels. So it seems that the torque is similar. The question is--just how strong/weak is the Sprinter's transmission? Also, that 188 hp is not encouraging--can anyone chime in as to what that effects in performance? If it's acceleration, not a prob--but holding speed up hills to a safe speed is important for safety.

Very concerned about giving any excuse for a warranty refusal, of course. So very conflicted about the ScanGauge--the importance of transmission temperature is very obvious to me, and the LOD is intriguing to help with mileage and I imagine, also long term health of the engine. But invalidating the warranty--scary stuff.

Have you ever heard of a ScanGauge II or similar device actually creating issues for the Sprinter electronics?

Click to expand...

"Heard of"? No.
Believe it could happen? Yes. (hey, i'm an engineer... ANY plugged-in device can go bonkers. Smoke happens.)
Don't forget that MB's "sanction" has to cover *every* eventuality... from a home-brew totally-uninformed-amateur solder blob to a $6k DRB-III. They said "don't use biodiesel" too... then backed off 5%... but there are some states where you WILL get higher percentages.
My SG has been attached (with occasional movements to other cars for checking P codes) since mile 300 on the odometer.

Very concerned about giving any excuse for a warranty refusal, of course. So very conflicted about the ScanGauge--the importance of transmission temperature is very obvious to me, and the LOD is intriguing to help with mileage and I imagine,

Click to expand...

My elder SG (i have the "I", not the smarter/smaller II) doesn't offer Tranny Temp. One can extrapolate it from the water temp.
I watch: LOD, MPG, RPM, MPH (since the SG is *accurate*). My dash water temp gauge is accurate enough for most use (i don't tow).
I don't care that my MPG isn't *exact* (i keep forgetting to calibrate at Fill times), i merely care "relative" (downshifting when LOD is 75% shows an immediate 10% improvement in MPG kind'a thing).
The "RPM" gets cycled to whatever *other* parameter i might be concerned about that day... MAP (also serves as barometric altimeter), VLT (my battery's getting old), IAT (how's the sensor doing?), WaterTemp (just checkin'), GPH (for those what-does-the-AC-cost-when idling questions).
My SG rides on top of my instrument hump... easier to eye-flick to than the speedo needle. (if i had an SG II, it would maybe ride down on the hazard flasher button)
I (in part) prefer the SG due to its buttons being on the front (i forget if it's the DashDAQ or UltraGauge which has them on the back)
I do NOT leave the SG connected when the vehicle goes in for service... mainly to avoid having the service folk break something when they try to yank it out... but i don't bother to close the ODB cover when it's out.

--dick

Larry, Thanks for the heads up on the OEM trailer tires. Bill

Promised update: We started towing our 6800 lb Airstream with our new Sprinter 3500 (rated for 7500 lbs) 3.0 liter with 5 speed this spring. We've definitely answered the "is it powerful enough" question--the answer is yes, plenty! Even in the high wind areas that we frequent, the combined package is very stable, and we have been able to climb (and comfortably descend) 7% grades in the Rockies repeatedly in all kind of heat. Of course, we cannot see transmission temperature, and coolant temperature holds around 212-220 max on the steepest prolonged climbs in 95 degree heat, cooling almost immediately once the grade slope decreases. Third gear holds comfortably at 50 mph on 7% grades, which is plenty fast enough, and acceleration is still possible but we don't push it.

We see average towing mileages at interstate speeds (65-70 where legal) from lows of 11 mpg with strong headwinds and/or climbing to highs of about 13.5 mpg in still air and flat terrain. On state highways where it's safe to average 50 mph (light traffic), we've seen as high as 14.7 mpg towing. Non towing, we average about 19 mpg highway at 65-70, and occasionally get tanks in the low 20's at 55-60, which is better than we expected with the one ton's extra weight, dually drag, and taller differential. We tend to adjust the brake controller pretty heavily to the trailer to prevent seeing it alongside should we have to brake downhill, and with a brake check at 12,000 miles, the mechanic told us we have over 90% left on the Mercedes' brakes.

Now only time will tell whether the Mercedes engineers are correct that this is a comfortable load for the truck, or whether our transmission our tubocharger (or both) will fail. We bought the extended Mercedes warranty to 100K miles, but of course, don't want the inconvenience and/or possible danger of a failure in a dangerous environment.