Serpentine Belt breakdown- advice needed

Preston

Preston

04 Sprinter, 118" Cargo
While driving, I lost heat & powers steering. Pulled over and the serpentine belt was off. I had the heater on high and aux heater was engaged was going a normal speed- nothing to extreme.

2 questions:

1) I’m assuming it’s okay to drive short spurts so I can get it home to work on? Pulling over often to prevent overheating.

2) Has anyone experienced this before? The belt looks fine...

Thanks in advance.
 
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TN Jim

TN Jim

Member
Be aware if you do this. You have no alternator to charge the battery, water pump to circulate water, etc. When battery "dies" loose power steering, fuel injectors will stop, fuel pump will stop, etc. I have driven without belt, just know the down side.
 
BrennWagon

BrennWagon

He’s just this guy, you know?
Yes, you can drive it short distances, but watch that needle and shut it off to cool before it gets to operating temperature. Do not let it overheat even a little bit!!!!

The likely reason is a bad pulley bearing or tensioner. I had this happen and found the belt tensioner assembly was slightly loose at the joint (worn pin) and a slight splash from a puddle would make the belt jump off. I replaced the tensioner and haven’t had that issue since.
 
Preston

Preston

04 Sprinter, 118" Cargo
Thanks Jim & Brenn,
My normal 15 minute drive took 2 hours- I didn’t want it to come close to overheating.
I’ll check the pulley when I put it back on. Hopefully it was a 1x situation.
Thanks again
 
vanski

vanski

If it’s winter, I’m probably skiing..
Preston said:
Thanks Jim & Brenn,
My normal 15 minute drive took 2 hours- I didn’t want it to come close to overheating.
I’ll check the pulley when I put it back on. Hopefully it was a 1x situation.
Thanks again
Click to expand...
Wow.. you drove 2 hours with no alternator? Good battery I guess?
 
autostaretx

autostaretx

Erratic Member
vanski said:
Wow.. you drove 2 hours with no alternator? Good battery I guess?
Click to expand...
I suspect he drove 15 minutes with no belt ... with an hour and 45 minutes of "cool down" stops along the way. It might have been 5 three-minute spurts, or three 5-minute spurts of actual driving.

Handy hint: during the "cool down" sessions, press the REST button ... that will circulate the coolant through the heater core (and radiator) for quicker heat loss.

--dick
 
Preston

Preston

04 Sprinter, 118" Cargo
Yes Dick. It took 2 hours because there were lots of pull offs to let the engine cool down.
 
Zundfolge

Zundfolge

Always learning...
Preston said:
Hopefully it was a 1x situation.
Click to expand...
From experience I can tell you, it isn't.

Since everything in life is a learning opportunity, I hope that your takeaway from this one is to always carry:

1) Extra serp belt
2) Tool set capable of minor repairs, including the appropriate 12pt. socket (what is it, 17mm?) to act on the belt tensioner.

I've had two belt failures in time I've owned my van - appx 100k miles. One was on a road trip to Big Sur, fortunately I've experienced enough serp belt failures in the past (with other vehicles) to ensure that I always carry extras. One of my idler pulleys split in half and turned the serp belt into spaghetti, wrapping it around the fan/water pump pulley. I ALSO carry a spare idler pulley because why not? Last thing I want is to be stranded somewhere in a very preventable situation...

In my experience belts do not just fall off without reason, and when the tensioner fails it tilts towards the front of the van, when bad enough it will "spill" the belt right off. So I'd guess that if you look at your tensioner it's probably separated? In your shoes I would also carefully inspect all of your pulleys to see if there are any other issues present. Check for cracks in the idler pulleys. The alternator pulley is clutched, and when you grab it and spin it then stop its force with your hand the internals should keep spinning for a second or two. I forget which direction but just try both. If you can spin it with you hand and stop it (without taking your hand off) in both directions and it also immediately stops rotation of the internals, then your alternator clutch has failed. Not the issue of your current situation, but once things start happening to the belt driven components they're all relatable. Over time a bad alternator clutch - meant to absorb minute changes in frequency of engine crank output pulses from firing of individual cylinders - will wear on the belt and potentially cause premature failure.

All of this to say, when you have a belt let loose, it's a great time to inspect every single component up front and change/do PM where necessary. I recently had my tensioner fail, it was an INA that lasted about 50k-60K miles. I also had a new thermostat and water pump on the shelf waiting for a good time to install them (van has 280K with unknown history before I bought it, though it seemed well maintained), and it turned out my alternator clutch was bad. So, van got a new belt, water pump, thermostat, alternator, and tensioner. Now it's hopefully good to go for a while.

Perhaps your van will get some front end engine love now too? Everyone's lonely in quarantine, even vans...
 
vanski

vanski

If it’s winter, I’m probably skiing..
Wow 2x belts! Crazy. I’ve put over 300k on T1ns and haven’t had that failure.. Good to know. Wonder if there’s an underlying problem in the harmonics of the accessory loop?

But yes, I have 2; one for me and one for the poor chap I might come across.

I also carry:

Crank sensor
Cam sensors
Turbo actuator
Belt tensioner
An extra and known good injector
Extra injector hold down bolts and seals
Fuel filter
10’ length runs of various gauge wire
....... honestly the list goes on and is extensive.

Luckily I haven’t had any failures (50-60k miles) since I had an injector fail open. Luckily it failed while leaving a pretty utopic place; shelter cove Ca. So we retreated down the hill, watched a pod of hump back whales frolic in the cove, drank a bottle of wine..... for two days until the new injector made its way.

Takes a special breed
 
Cheyenne

Cheyenne

UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
JHGould5607 said:
Does a failed injector bring you down? IE unable to move the van
Click to expand...
It depends on the year? Well actually whether it is an OM612 or OM647 engine!

So what year/engine is your T1N?

Keith.

PS And this is a thread on serpentine belts so you would have done better starting a new thread or finding one on injectors.
 
vanski

vanski

If it’s winter, I’m probably skiing..
hypothetically i could have driven it at the possible expense of blowing my motor..
 
kkanuck

kkanuck

LUV my T1N
vanski said:
Wow 2x belts! Crazy. I’ve put over 300k on T1ns and haven’t had that failure.. Good to know. Wonder if there’s an underlying problem in the harmonics of the accessory loop?

But yes, I have 2; one for me and one for the poor chap I might come across.

I also carry:

Crank sensor
Cam sensors
Turbo actuator
Belt tensioner
An extra and known good injector
Extra injector hold down bolts and seals
Fuel filter
10’ length runs of various gauge wire
....... honestly the list goes on and is extensive.

Luckily I haven’t had any failures (50-60k miles) since I had an injector fail open. Luckily it failed while leaving a pretty utopic place; shelter cove Ca. So we retreated down the hill, watched a pod of hump back whales frolic in the cove, drank a bottle of wine..... for two days until the new injector made its way.

Takes a special breed
Click to expand...
What was your symptoms and mileage of your failed injector?


I have 150K miles on a 2004 and have used redline lubrication additives to the fuel and BG 245 once per year to clean injectors. I have never had black death or messed with any injectors and have one it since new. Should I do any preemptive (send injectors to Bosch for testing etc.) or wait for trouble if and when it happens...

Cheers
 
vanski

vanski

If it’s winter, I’m probably skiing..
typically when an injector fails open it is pretty obvious; loud clacking, shaking motor, black smoke.

im a fan of liquimolly diesel purge... i now run it once per year straight from a jug (not just adding it to the tank).. kind of a pain.

some pros feel sprinter injectors start to fail around 200k miles, but others have run original injectors for over 800k miles.

i have replaced all injectors on my first sprinter and the fuel economy went from 19mpg to 24mpg over night.
 
2

220629

Well-known member
kkanuck said:
What was your symptoms and mileage of your failed injector?


I have 150K miles on a 2004 and have used redline lubrication additives to the fuel and BG 245 once per year to clean injectors. I have never had black death or messed with any injectors and have one it since new. Should I do any preemptive (send injectors to Bosch for testing etc.) or wait for trouble if and when it happens...

Cheers
Click to expand...
Your question probably would be better answered in an injector thread rather than this serpentine belt thread.

Dennis said this.

lindenengineering said:
Well base upon what I have seen. I recommend a bench check at 250,000 miles being ball & seat style injectors on good running engine.
If it has no service history or dubious FIE service history then temper your injector test maintenance accordingly .
At any interval where a repair intervention requires something like a head off, the injectors should be checked.
I send out about 3 sets of T1N injectors weekly for test.
I rarely see a full set being returned as fully serviceable.
Dennis
Click to expand...
If you send your injectors out for testing the likely scenario is that they won't meet OEM factory specifications.

There was further discussion in that thread. Click on the blue arrow icon within the quote box to be taken to that thread.

Back to the serpentine belt topic please.

:cheers: vic
 
Preston

Preston

04 Sprinter, 118" Cargo
Zundfolge said:
From experience I can tell you, it isn't.

Since everything in life is a learning opportunity, I hope that your takeaway from this one is to always carry:

1) Extra serp belt
2) Tool set capable of minor repairs, including the appropriate 12pt. socket (what is it, 17mm?) to act on the belt tensioner.

I've had two belt failures in time I've owned my van - appx 100k miles. One was on a road trip to Big Sur, fortunately I've experienced enough serp belt failures in the past (with other vehicles) to ensure that I always carry extras. One of my idler pulleys split in half and turned the serp belt into spaghetti, wrapping it around the fan/water pump pulley. I ALSO carry a spare idler pulley because why not? Last thing I want is to be stranded somewhere in a very preventable situation...

In my experience belts do not just fall off without reason, and when the tensioner fails it tilts towards the front of the van, when bad enough it will "spill" the belt right off. So I'd guess that if you look at your tensioner it's probably separated? In your shoes I would also carefully inspect all of your pulleys to see if there are any other issues present. Check for cracks in the idler pulleys. The alternator pulley is clutched, and when you grab it and spin it then stop its force with your hand the internals should keep spinning for a second or two. I forget which direction but just try both. If you can spin it with you hand and stop it (without taking your hand off) in both directions and it also immediately stops rotation of the internals, then your alternator clutch has failed. Not the issue of your current situation, but once things start happening to the belt driven components they're all relatable. Over time a bad alternator clutch - meant to absorb minute changes in frequency of engine crank output pulses from firing of individual cylinders - will wear on the belt and potentially cause premature failure.

All of this to say, when you have a belt let loose, it's a great time to inspect every single component up front and change/do PM where necessary. I recently had my tensioner fail, it was an INA that lasted about 50k-60K miles. I also had a new thermostat and water pump on the shelf waiting for a good time to install them (van has 280K with unknown history before I bought it, though it seemed well maintained), and it turned out my alternator clutch was bad. So, van got a new belt, water pump, thermostat, alternator, and tensioner. Now it's hopefully good to go for a while.

Perhaps your van will get some front end engine love now too? Everyone's lonely in quarantine, even vans...
Click to expand...
Thanks for the time put into this reply. I’m stoked for the information.
I was able to inspect the pulleys and tensioner. Not really knowing what to look for exactly, things looked to be normal. So I reinstalled the belt and so far it’s been fine. Im taking short trips to only safe places so I’m never to far away. Either way, I now carry an handful of new tools with me including most of you suggested! Fingers crossed it was a 1x situation, but if it happens again, I’ll be ready, :thumbup:
 
Preston

Preston

04 Sprinter, 118" Cargo
Aqua Puttana said:
That would be nice, but as has been mentioned already, don't count on it.

In this thread there are some pictures of what I discovered with my belt and tensioner.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=755615#post755615

It would be worthwhile to inspect the system closely.

:2cents: vic
Click to expand...
Thanks Vic. Im sure it falling off was a sign that something is causing it. I will reinspect. Sounds like there is a major manufacturing issue with a reliable replacement part. What do you suggest?
 
2

220629

Well-known member
Preston said:
... What do you suggest?
Click to expand...
:idunno:

Some would suggest dealership OEM only.

I've installed 2 each from Europarts SD. One on the 2004. One on the 2006. So far so good.

Unless they have changed their design or manufacturing capabilities, I would avoid INA brand.

If the pulley and bearing on the removed tensioner appear good I would remove the pulley to carry as a spare. There have been some reports of the pulley splitting. If I run into that failure I will install my spare pulley to keep moving down the road. The pulley is relatively easy to access. The complete tensioner can be changed at a later time.

:cheers: vic
 
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