Yosemite and warped capitalism.

autostaretx

autostaretx

Erratic Member
surlyoldbill said:
Like domain name squatting, maybe we should get on the copyrighting train. I'm going to copyright "Smithsonian Institution" and then charge the government one MILLION dollars, uh, one BILLION, uh no; one TRILLION DOLLARS to buy it back or lease the rights from me. I'm a Patriot! Gimme free government stuff!
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The folks at the Smithsonian think about copyrights and trademarks all the time.
(they ain't the Park Service)

Quoting their website:
Smithsonian said:
Many of the names, titles, trademarks, service marks, and logos that appear on the SI Websites are registered or common law (unregistered) marks of the Smithsonian. With the exception of fair use, you may not use the Smithsonian trademarks without prior written permission.
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i.e. they got there first.

I suggest you choose another target.
How's about "Congress", "Congressional" and all of its variants?
(you could even register "congress" as a verb ...)
(and congress.xxx is still an available URL! Only $49.99! Squat on it!)

--dick
p.s. reading that SI note, perhaps the Park Service might be able to invalidate Deleware North's registrations by "prior use"?
But Apple was able to register Apple(tm) (and fought it out with the Beatles' Apple Corp), and Google now has "Alphabet".
 
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2

220629

Well-known member
avanti said:
Before you put TOO much of the blame on the for-profit corporation, here is an article that casts a skeptical eye on the Park Service's tactics:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sara-warner/for-parks-service-yosemit_b_9386508.html
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Thanks for that.

As with so many of these issues, there are two sides to every story. You rarely can go higher than an opening negotiation number, so start high.

Delaware North has other government contracts. That may end up influencing the end result.

vic
 
ECU

ECU

2006 T1n 118 Sprinter
surlyoldbill said:
I would continue to use the original names just to spite the dicks who want free money. People continued to call Candlestick Park "Candlestick Park" even after the naming rights were purchased by some corp. Oakland Coliseum is supposedly "Oracle Coliseum" or something but no one calls it that.
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Notice all the names seem to be health insurance companies. Pisses me off that they jacked our rates and now have lots to spend on stadium money pits.:bash::yell:

Delaware North has other government contracts. That may end up influencing the end result.
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Who do they know? What government guy is getting a kickback? Who is related to whom?
 
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avanti

avanti

2022 Ford Transit 3500
ECU said:
Who do they know? What government guy is getting a kickback? Who is related to whom?
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At least these companies are honest about what business they are in. As outlined in the "Indian Trader" book, the NPS is deeply in bed with often very large "not-for-profit" 501(c)(3) organizations with innocent-sounding names like "Yellowstone Park Foundation" and "Friends of Acadia". Here is a partial list:

http://www.nps.gov/partnerships/Friends_Groups_Directory.pdf

These organizations have formal relationships with the Park Service and their boards and donors often have very interesting special privileges in various parks.

We do a lot of volunteer work at a certain national park, and see a tiny bit of what goes on. The contrast between work-a-day rangers and the NPS administrators is stark. Read the book--it will make your hair stand on end.

P.S. -- As a result of his relations with one of these organizations, the director of the NPS received a formal reprimand and is required to receive monthly ethics training for the rest of his career:

http://www.nationalparkstraveler.co...kirted-ethics-office-writing-book-reprimanded
 
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OrioN

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
ECU said:
Notice all the names seem to be health insurance companies. Pisses me off that they jacked our rates and now have lots to spend on stadium money pits.:bash::yell:


Who do they know? What government guy is getting a kickback? Who is related to whom?
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Would you like some mustard?





.
 
GeorgeRa

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
autostaretx said:
Don't miss: http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2016/03/yosemite-trademark-dispute-could-drag-2017

The fat lady hasn't even warmed up her vocal cords yet...

Snippet from a comment:


--dick
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Thanks for the link, I extracted thix from following comments:

"Submitted by Bill Borrie on March 8, 2016 - 1:47pm.
Joe, I'm not so sure that Delaware North is all that disgraceful! While I find the whole dispute, particularly over the name of the national park itself, to be frustrating, I think Delaware North is doing what all good businesses should do and that is protect their investments. No-one should be surprised when businesses, particularly big corporations with phalanxes of lawyers, behave this way. That's what they do".

"Submitted by Marsha N on March 8, 2016 - 3:48pm.
To say that DNC established the Yosemite National Park brand almost to an equal extent that the NPS did is ludicrous. Yosemite National Park has been there for over 100 years before DNC and will be there way past the time that DNC left."

George.
 
surlyoldbill

surlyoldbill

Well-known member
My National Park strategy is to buy my annual multi agency pass, and bring any and all gear, food, etc. with me. Prices for lodging and gear are gougy, and the food is usually horrible reheated frozen fare; basic cafeteria food at fine dining prices. There are exceptions of course, the brunch on the North Rim was decent for the price.

The multi agency pass is about $70 and gives admission to all national parks and monuments for a year, discounts at some State and regional parks for camping or entrance, sometimes free entrance, and free parking in National Forest or BLM trailhead parking lots that charge a fee. Many years ago when I first got my Sprinter, they were unusual and people at the Park entrances were just CERTAIN that I was a commercial tour bus when I had a few people with me in the back seats, so I had my registration and even a printout of a Sprinter ad ready to show them. They would wave through a Suburban with 8 people in it but pull me aside for "special inspection" when I only had 4 people. It was pretty common until about 2010.
 
autostaretx

autostaretx

Erratic Member
SOB? Just wait until you're 65 years old... then you can buy a lifetime Senior pass for the one-time-charge of $10.
Pretty much the same privileges

(half-price for federally-run campgrounds, too)

--dick
 
avanti

avanti

2022 Ford Transit 3500
autostaretx said:
SOB? Just wait until you're 65 years old... then you can buy a lifetime Senior pass for the one-time-charge of $10.
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It is 62, not 65! And even better:
When you forget your card it is only a $10 mistake, since you can just buy another one and use it immediately. (And, you only need one senior in your group, the card is good for your whole party).
 
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N

NBB

Well-known member
The trademarks are there to protect t-shirt sales. Blame the tourons for creating demand, IMO.

The thing that gets me about DNC is the vast sums of money they are clearly extracting from the park, leaving a run down ghetto in return. The Lodge, Curry Village, basically the whole park - it's a giant sh!thole, really. The buildings are generally run down, maintenance is poor, food is awful - and all this at exorbitant prices.

If this trademark dispute is an indicator of how one sided the contracts are and the NPS's general incompetence in forming them - then IMO, this is nothing compared to the whole. These contracts are worth billions. No doubt DNC is so sad to see it go.
 
GeorgeRa

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
avanti said:
It is 62, not 65! And even better:
When you forget your card it is only a $10 mistake, since you can just buy another one and use it immediately. (And, you only need one senior in your group, the card is good for your whole party).
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I did exactly the same, forgot but not a big deal.
 
avanti

avanti

2022 Ford Transit 3500
NBB said:
The trademarks are there to protect t-shirt sales. Blame the tourons for creating demand, IMO.
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Well, the trademarks are important for other reasons. The parks have a lot of problems with tourist traps on the approaches to parks siphoning off visitors to third-rate destinations via official-looking signs. The trademarks are an important tool for fighting this.
 
surlyoldbill

surlyoldbill

Well-known member
Usually having fees of any kind keeps the riff-raff out, but that's not the case for popular parks. And sometimes it backfires, with people of lower values wanting to defile or deface the park in retaliation for the fee. A local park started charging a "trail use fee" (China Camp State Park). The fee is $3 to use the trails, a roughly 12 mile loop popular with mountain bikers and runners. I probably ran 500 miles on those trails last year and not once did I see a ranger asking people for permits. I do think there are less people on the trails, though. But, I don't dare try to run there on the weekend because of all the 9 to 5ers clogging up the park to make the most of their allotted two days off. Maybe the rangers ask for permits on the weekends.
 
surlyoldbill

surlyoldbill

Well-known member
avanti said:
Well, the trademarks are important for other reasons. The parks have a lot of problems with tourist traps on the approaches to parks siphoning off visitors to third-rate destinations via official-looking signs. The trademarks are an important tool for fighting this.
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Like Grand Canyon Skywalk; a totally private enterprise located on a Reservation and operated by a Casino corporation. Advertising makes a point of alluding that it is part of GCNP, but it's not. Also, I have heard that it is not worth visiting. They gouge you for everything they can, and take away your camera before they let you on the skywalk, and then have a few security guys herd you along from behind so you can't be on the thing for more than a few minutes (to get the next paying group through).
 
N

NBB

Well-known member
I generally avoid the man-made mess as well, as much as possible. The Sprinter helps a lot with that. Groceries are nice, the rest of it can burn.

~3k feet up the Captain...
 
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sprinterpirate

sprinterpirate

not an electrician.
Rensho said:
It is a shame that US Nationally recognized historical treasures were ever allowed to be copyrighted/trademarked in the first place.
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surlyoldbill said:
Like domain name squatting, maybe we should get on the copyrighting train. I'm going to copyright "Smithsonian Institution" and then charge the government one MILLION dollars, uh, one BILLION, uh no; one TRILLION DOLLARS to buy it back or lease the rights from me.
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calbiker said:
They haven't changed Half Dome.

Nothing really changes. The park is still the same.
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Glad to see this conversation. :yell: those greedy :censored:. I nearly :censored: myself when I read this in the news. Had just gotten back from a quick valley trip.


Calbiker, thanks for the reminder. Mostly I think you're right, but not because they aren't trying. "They" would put a casino where you took that photo if they could get away with it--and in most places they can.

:censored::yell::censored: (i love these smilie things)
 
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