Not looking forward to the release of "Ford v Ferrari"...

I'm sure the movie makers put a lot of effort into this film, but Carroll Shelby was a total piece of $hit, a major scam artist, criminal, and con man. To portray him as some kind of "hero" of motorsports, is simply a Hollywood fabrication.

The only credit that Shelby rightfully deserves, is that he experienced limited success as an amateur racing driver.

The original AC Cobra (referred to by some as the "Shelby Cobra") came into existence when Shelby conned the struggling English car maker AC into giving him an AC Ace sports car (less engine), and then conned Ford into giving him a couple of V8 engines. I don't know how many car makers Shelby tried to con before AC gave him a car, but I do know that he tried to con Chevrolet out of an engine first, and Chevrolet told him to go pound sand. Shelby didn't "engineer" anything- he simply installed one of the the free Ford engine into the free AC car, and promptly declared himself God's gift to motorsport.

From Wikipedia:

In September 1961, American automotive designer Carroll Shelby wrote to AC asking if they would build him a car modified to accept a V8 engine. AC agreed, provided a suitable engine could be found. Shelby went to Chevrolet to see if they would provide him with engines, but not wanting to add competition to the Corvette they said no. However, Ford wanted a car that could compete with the Corvette and they happened to have a brand new engine which could be used in this endeavor: the Windsor 221 in³ (3.6 L) engine – a new lightweight, thin-wall cast small-block V8. Ford provided Shelby with two engines.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Cobra

The GT40 is also not quite what the nostalgic circle-jerk seems to represent it as. Shelby didn't "engineer" the original GT40- the original GT40 is simply a British Lola Mk6 with a Ford engine installed in it. And the Porsche 917 simply ended the GT40.

From Wikipedia:

The Ford GT40 is a high-performance endurance racing car with the Mk I, Mk II, and Mk III model cars being based upon the British Lola Mk6, and were designed and built in England...

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_GT40

Shelby subsequently whored his name out to anyone who would pay him, for vehicles as embarrassing as the malaise-era 110-horsepower 4-cylinder front-wheel drive 5-door hatchback Dodge Omni GLH econobox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbcRHGGfcz8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Omni

Then in 1993, Shelby got busted attempting to get rich counterfeiting Cobras. He fraudulently obtained 43 "duplicate titles" for cars that built on frames that he claimed he built in the mid-'60s but never completed. It all unraveled on him when it was discovered that the alleged mid-'60s Cobra frames had actually been built in 1991 and 1992 in Torrance California by McCluskey Ltd..

From Wikipedia:

In 1993, the Los Angeles Times exposed a Carroll Shelby scheme[21] to "Counterfeit" his own cars. With the price of an original 427 c.i. Cobra skyrocketing, Shelby had, by his own written declaration executed under penalty of perjury, caused the California Department of Motor Vehicles (the government agency responsible for titling vehicles and issuing operator permits) to utter forty-three "Duplicate Titles" for vehicles that did not officially exist in company records. A letter from AC Cars confirmed the fact that the chassis numbers Shelby had obtained titles for were never manufactured, at least by AC Cars. Only fifty-five 427 c.i. Cobras had been originally produced out of a block of serial numbers reserved for 100 vehicles. Shelby had taken advantage of a loophole in the California system that allowed one to obtain a duplicate title for a vehicle with only a written declaration, without the vehicle identification number appearing in the DMV's database or the declarant ever presenting an actual vehicle for inspection.[22] Shelby admitted that the chassis had been manufactured in 1991 and '92 by McCluskey Ltd, an engineering firm in Torrance, California, and were not original AC chassis,[22] however Shelby denied having misled anyone and said he was a victim...

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Cobra#Counterfeit_Cobras

And finally, the "Eleanor" fraud. Following the success of the Nicholas Gage / Angelina Jolie 2000 movie "Gone In 60 Seconds" (itself a remake of fraudster H.B. Halicki's 1974 B-movie of the same name), and the popularity of the "Eleanor" Shelby GT500 Mustang hero car from the remake, Shelby got greedy again. This time, it just went over the edge. Massive deposits were taken from countless victims, totaling about seven MILLION dollars. The cars themselves were all fakes, and most of them had fraudulent VIN numbers. There were washed titles, stolen cars, salvaged totals, cars built out of two halves of wrecked cars, there was just no limit to how low they would stoop this time. Of the few cars that were actually built (by unskilled prison inmates), they had over 100 POUNDS (about 13 GALLONS) of bondo in each one. Most of them were never completed, and when law enforcement began to close in, the cars were shuffled around from place to place to try to hide them. Eventually, police seized 61 cars in late 2007 in Texas and shut down the operation.

https://www.oldcarsweekly.com/news/...y_raided_in_texas_eleanors_reputation_tainted

https://jalopnik.com/unique-performance-mustangs-allegedly-built-by-prisoner-359986

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyYgDtY2AMY

If you want to see a GOOD movie about automobile endurance racing, watch the 1971 movie "Le Mans" instead.

Le Mans is a truly epic work of film-making. It has no dialogue until 35 minutes into the film. In addition to "the King of cool" Steve McQueen, it also features 24 year old Louise Edlind (who reminds me of a young Ashley Judd) and Elga Andersen. But most importantly, it features a truly sonorous soundtrack provided by flat-12 Porsche and V-12 Ferrari engines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzINl-QCUoU

Was Shelby's chili also fake?

No matter how Shelby did it we do have to thank him for having the thought of stuffing a V8 into the AC. The AC was a nice car with the 2 liter Bristol engine. One of the members of our sports car club owned one with the Bristol engine.

A lot of people have installed engines in cars without being involved in the theft of seven million dollars.

Say what you will about Carol Shelby but the Omni GLH was a lot of fun. 142 hp from only 2.2 liters was fairly impressive at the time and slightly more than 5.0 mustangs of the day. Sure, the aluminum head on the iron block was a major design flaw and the vacuum system was annoying and the transaxle wasn’t really up to the power but they were a factory effort that effectively used Carol Shelby for what he was, a marketing gimmick.

FWIW, There was talk back in the 90’s of a MOPAR kit possibly called the T3 which was purported to increase the output of the intercooled setup of the later GLH-S to around 330hp, which would be absolutely silly.

BongWagon said:

Say what you will about Carol Shelby but the Omni GLH was a lot of fun.

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A malaise-era 4-banger FWD domestic econobox is the price of integrity to you?

142hp from only 2.2 liters was fairly impressive at the time and slightly more than 5.0 mustangs of the day.

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Wrong.

The 1984 Mustang GT 5.0 was 175 horsepower (4-barrel Holley carburetor). That would be more than the 110-horsepower 1984 GLH.

The 1985 Mustang GT 5.0 was 210 horsepower (4-barrel Holley carburetor). That would be more than the 142-horsepower 1985 GLH-T.

And the 1986 Mustang GT 5.0 was 200 horsepower (EFI). That would be more than the 146-horsepower 1986 GLH-T.

I’m not sure why you’re confusing the n/a engine from a Shelby Charger with the turbo engine in the GLH. Output from the GLH and other dodge turbos was 142 hp, the GLH-S added an intercooler and was rated to 176 hp. Also, I never claimed the Shelby Dodges in any way showed any integrity on the part of Carol Shelby or his company, only that the GLH was a lot of fun and a factory effort that used his name as a marketing gimmick.

For comparison sake, I’m using the 1984 numbers

64.5 hp per liter from the 2.2T vs 36.5 hp per liter for the 5.0 (which was really a 4.8 liter) doesn’t impress you?

At 2205 lbs the GLH has a .064 hp/lb power to weight ratio while the 5.0 Mustang at 3100 lbs has a .056hp/lb power to weight ratio

The 1984 Porsche 911 Carrera produced 200 HP from 3.2(ish) liters, which works out to 63.2 hp per liter. Just thought I’d throw that in there as an example of what I think we can both agree was about the height of automotive technology at the time. The ‘80’s were a terrible time for cars and what Chrysler did with the Omni GLH is technologically impressive, especially as the competition were Rabbits, Civics, Escorts, Chevettes, etc. Not traditional pony cars.

My recollection of hp numbers comes from with the Chiltons or Haines manual for fox body mustangs from when I owned one briefly in ‘98 which rated the highest output from 1984 as being 140hp. My experience with the Chrysler 2.2l turbo comes from owning an ‘86 Dodge 600ES, which was an arguably less ugly version of the LeBaron convertible. I managed to run that to about 160K in the four years that I had it before my Pop’s favorite shop bent it on their lift during a state safety inspection and it was totaled (lift points are really important!!!)

BrennWagon said:

I’m not sure why you’re confusing the n/a engine from a Shelby Charger with the turbo engine in the GLH. Output from the GLH and other dodge turbos was 142 hp...

My recollection of hp numbers comes from with the Chiltons or Haines manual for fox body mustangs from when I owned one briefly in ‘98 which rated the highest output from 1984 as being 140hp. My experience with the Chrysler 2.2l turbo comes from owning an ‘86 Dodge 600ES, which was an arguably less ugly version of the LeBaron convertible. I managed to run that to about 160K in the four years that I had it before my Pop’s favorite shop bent it on their lift during a state safety inspection and it was totaled (lift points are really important!!!)

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The only confusion is on your part, although I can understand your confusion, because all of those malaise-era Chrysler vehicles were built on the same platform- the Charger, Omni, Horizon, Turismo, Laser, Rampage, 024, TC3, Scamp, LeBaron, Town & Country, New Yorker, Executive, Aries, 400, New Yorker Turbo, E-Class, Reliant, 600, Caravelle, Caravan, Voyager, Daytona, Lancer, Shadow, Sundance, Duster...they were all the same car, just with different external sheetmetal. This was Lee Iacocca's idea- the same guy that invented the Pinto, invented the minivan, and "borrowed" the name of the most valuable car in the world (the Ferrari 250 GTO) for the sport package on the Pontiac's mid-sized 4-seater Tempest.

You may have read about it in a book once, but I worked at Chrysler and Ford dealerships during these years, I've driven all of these cars, and worked on most of them.

The Dodge GLH was produced for three years- 1984, 1985, and 1986.

The standard engine for the Dodge GLH, for all three years, was the normally-aspirated 110-horsepower 2.2.

In 1984, there was no turbo engine available. There were 3,285 GLH cars built. The 1984 GLH was reportedly capable of 0-60 in 8.7 seconds on it's way to a 16.7-second quarter-mile ET at 81 mph and a top speed of 106 mph.

In 1985, an OPTIONAL 142-horsepower turbo 2.2 was available for the GLH. There were 3,004 non-turbo GLH cars built, and 3,509 turbo GLH-T cars built. The turbocharged 1985 GLH-T was reportedly capable of 0-60 in 8.1 seconds on it's way to a 16.2-second quarter-mile ET at 85.5 mph and a top speed of 119 mph.

In 1986, an OPTIONAL 146-horsepower turbo 2.2 was available for the GLH (the GLH-T). There were 882 non turbo GLH cars built, and 2,247 turbo GLH-T cars built.

...the GLH-S added an intercooler and was rated to 176 hp.

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The 175-horsepower GLHS was not a factory-built car. They were not even Dodges. They were incomplete vehicles, sold by Dodge to Shelby. Shelby then completed 500 of them. They were sold as Shelbys (not as Dodges) through Dodge dealers.

I stand corrected on the engine options but I still say the turbo Dodges were fun and technically impressive for the day. Yes, the entire fwd line of Chrysler’s was based on the K car and up or down sized as needed and the modified platform was used all the way to the horrid in nearly every way PT Cruiser. Iacocca was a successful hype man, so was Shelby, and both are people of questionable character

The number of people in the auto business that are not at least a little bit questionable is a very small number.

The entire industry has been built around the the concept of tweaking suspensions, tires and drive trains.

I don't really see the issue of someone going into business to do vehicle tweaking and selling them / adding some hype / marketing - all within good fun of course.

The only real issue is that the EPA has more or less shut down this fun with it's over regulation.

HarryN said:

The number of people in the auto business that are not at least a little bit questionable is a very small number.

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That's not true. Car sales people tend to be slimy, but the rest of the industry has just enough bad people to keep the stories going.

The entire industry has been built around the the concept of tweaking suspensions, tires and drive trains.

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That's not true at all. That's a VERY small portion of the industry.

I don't really see the issue of someone going into business to do vehicle tweaking and selling them / adding some hype / marketing - all within good fun of course.

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That's not the issue. The issue is lying and thieving.

As for the move I'll half too view it: one reason is a Cobra racers quote "scariest car I've ever driven". I hope the movie is entertaining but don't expect too much.

CJPJ said:

As for the move I'll half too view it: one reason is a Cobra racers quote "scariest car I've ever driven". I hope the movie is entertaining but don't expect too much.

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That's a quote often attributed to British driver Ken Miles, who won Daytona and Sebring in '66, but I don't know if he ever actually said that.

Either way, Miles died about 6 months later, and there have been a lot of scary cars built since 1966.

Ripe Chevrolet Contender
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3JWr-euCGzQ&feature=youtu.be
Ripe guttural sound Flat plane crank V8