Orton DIY Transit

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
The water system is installed but has not been used yet because I do not have the SS tanks.

The system uses a quiet solar centrifugal water pump instead of the traditional RV noisy positive displacement pump. Much smaller space required. Pump is turned on/off with a switch at the sink. System is not pressurized when pump is off.

Attached picture shows the complete water system. Red hose is from the tank to the pump. There is a tee after the pump. One side of tee goes to the ball valve. Pressurized water available if ball valve is open. Ball valve is also the tank drain. Water will flow through a centrifugal pump when it is off. The separate shower water tank is filled with a hose from the ball valve. The other side of the tee goes to the sink faucet. There is a tee in the faucet piping so a small amount of water is returned to the tank. Purpose of that is to cool the pump if (when) I forget to turn the pump off. The hose to the sink faucet will be clear so I will be able to see the tank level.
 

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Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Looking good Dave,
What is the box on the left side of the plumbing?
George.
Transit floor structure. Slider step does not go all the way to the door frame.

Excuse the wiring hanging down. In the process of wiring the electrical panel that is on forward side of sink. There is a fold up table to be used for eating and computer work when the passenger seat is swiveled 180 degrees. From top of table to the bottom of the sink top is a panel with a 12 volt plug, a 120 volt duplex plug and the light switch for the overhead sink lights.
 

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Frosty_1

Member
Just got done reading entire thread, solid work again Dave! :bow:

I am contemplating another van build...really want 4x4, but don't want another Sprinter! :thinking:

Looking forward to seeing your van complete!
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Just got done reading entire thread, solid work again Dave! :bow:

I am contemplating another van build...really want 4x4, but don't want another Sprinter! :thinking:

Looking forward to seeing your van complete!
Glad to see you back. I do not need a 4x4 but if I did it would be either a Quigly or Quadvan on the Transit. Similar in cost to the Sprinter 4x4 but with readily available stock Ford parts.

Thanks for the compliment. I am posting the info as a resource for others. Do realize that what I have done may not be suitable for others. We each have are own requirements.

This conversion is harder than the first Sprinter conversion. Work never seems to end. Should be neat if I ever get it done. I am far enough along that it can be used. Have spent 30-40 nights in it so far.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
The electrical wiring is all done with "SO" cords. Used 14/3 for 120 volt AC and 12/2 or 16/2 for 12 volt DC.

Exceptions were 12/3 for 15 amp shore power and 14/2 for roof vent.

SO cords are much easier to run than conduit and wire. Mine are all run outside the wall behind or in the cabinets or floor. Cabinets are 15 series 80/20 so the neat 80/20 cable mounting block part # 12316 was used extensively. Mounting block pushes into the slot and then turned 90 degrees. Has slots for a cable tie. All wiring except the roof fan is accessible.
 

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Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Just made another change to the electrical design. Mounted two duplex receptacle next to each other to provide two choices of 120 volt power for the shower water electric heater. They are mounted above the shower. The shower water electric heater has a 3 prong cord. I can plug it into the duplex receptacle powered by the vehicle engine powered inverter or plug it into the duplex receptacle that is powered by the house battery/inverter.

If I use the vehicle powered inverter then the engine needs to be running. If use the house battery powered inverter then the engine does not need to be running. I can use the house battery powered inverter if the weather conditions permit. Heating the 5 gallons of shower water will take about 30 minutes and use up about 10% of my 255 amp-hr battery capacity. That is OK if the sun is expected to shine that day.
 

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rollerbearing

Well-known member
Graphite Dave,

I've moved over here so as not to get embroiled on the other thread.

I have begun looking at your grounding and am still working things out.

I did come across something that has me a feeling the need to proceed very carefully. In the SAMLEX inverter manual it states that what they have choosen to call "neutral" is connected to ground at the GFCI socket of the inverter.

Now your diagram shows you switching both sides of the AC circuit from the inverter so it looks like when you are on shore power neutral and ground will not be connected - that is crucial!

If you had only switched the hot side (as in conventional house subpanels) there could be a dangerous situation.

I still have not identified if the chassis ground lug on the SAMLEX shares the "AC GROUND" on the SAMLEX GFCI plug socket.

Also, because that SAMLEX AC ground is connected at the output, it is no longer truly floating or 100% isolated.

If you know and understand all of the following you can ignore it, but please read the XANTREX pdf and Aqua Puttana's electric shock post links in the other thread. Here is another as well:

http://beamalarm.com/Documents/120_vac_in_your_rv.html
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Thanks.

I sort of understand. Do not believe my wiring connects the ground to the neutral.

The house Magnum inverter is installed and wired. I have the Samlex installed but not yet wired. Neither of the two inverter's ground lugs are connected to anything. Both inverters are bolted to the 80/20 aluminum framework and the aluminum framework is bolted to the van body at only one location. So I have the metal inverter casings grounded to the chassis. Someone said the ground lug on the inverters is there if you bolt the inverters to a wood wall which then requires the ground lug to be used to ground the case.

The 12 volt DC is not grounded. Two wires to every load. House battery negative is not connected to the chassis.

The sold Sprinter was wired the same as the diagram. The Sprinter had a 600 watt Xantrex. System worked well. I could run the engine, turn on the Xantrex and power the charger in the Magnum.
 

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
Thanks.

I sort of understand. Do not believe my wiring connects the ground to the neutral.

.............................
Magnum MMS 1012 connects ground to neutral internally if it becomes the AC source. With automatic transfer relay active (Shore AC present) it disconnects that bond. I just wired my Morningstar 300W as a standalone system with its own outlets and followed the Morningstar instruction of bonding ground to neutral.

George.
 

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Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Thanks George.

That makes sense. AC from shore has neutral to ground bond so since inverters are a source of AC then they should be wired the same. The trouble would occur if you have more than one source of AC which I will not have. The 120 volt AC supply would be bonded at the vehicle powered inverter when it is supplying 120 volt power and the shore power connection would be bonded when shore power is supplying the power. I have a selector switch that prevents two sources of AC to be used at the same time. Without the selector switch someone could make the mistake of plugging into shore power when the vehicle powered inverter was running. The running Magnum house inverter/charger/transfer switch automatically switches to standby mode if the unit senses that AC power is available. I assume in standby mode the neutral to ground bond is broken. Doubt that I would ever have the Magnum operating if I had 120 volts AC available.

Is the above summary correct? Errors?
 

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
The trouble would occur if you have more than one source of AC which I will not have.
You could have multiple AC sources but bonds would have to managed. For simplicity sake I installed the Morningstar as a full standalone system.

I assume in standby mode the neutral to ground bond is broken. Doubt that I would ever have the Magnum operating if I had 120 volts AC available.
The integrated into the Magnum Inverter Automatic Transfer Switch – ATS most likely operates in the same way as a generic ATS. They are normally closed and inverter AC is the source so ground/neutral bond is the normal state independent of idling or search mode. With the shore AC presence, the ATS relay is activated, AC shore becomes the source and the inverter bond is disconnected.

George.
 

rollerbearing

Well-known member
George has supplied the missing piece regarding the Magnums transfer switch and its bonding. And since you are switching both sides of the AC line the neutral/ground bond in the SAMLEX will not be a problem. A safe way for others to do this would be to use the same plug to plug into only shore power or only the SAMLEX. They can never be powered at the same time and the SAMLEX bonding will never lead to a hazard on shore power.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
I think the way I have the electrical wired I will only have one bond active at the same time. There is a selector switch after the shore power and vehicle powered inverter "shore power" so only one can be active at the same time. Either of these sources can be sent to the Magnum house inverter/charger/transfer switch. When the Magnum senses 120 volt AC shore power available then it turns off and transfer the power through the transfer switch relay. When it turns off the bond between the neutral and ground is disconnected. In addition if I have shore power or "shore power" from the vehicle powered inverter then the Magnum would not be on anyway. I only turn on the Magnum when I need 120 volt AC if it is not available from shore power so the Magnum would not be running anyway. I never leave the Magnum on all the time. It uses too much power when on without a load. Magnum also has a power save mode but that makes noise when it hunts for a load so I do not use it.

So that leaves my question about the ground lugs on each inverter. Should they be connected to the 80/20 structure that is grounded to the chassis at one location? Are the lugs simply a metal inverter case ground or do they serve another function? Both metal inverter cases are bolted metal to metal on the 80/20 framework so cases are grounded to the framework.
 

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
My main ground for AC and DC is on the D pillar. My AC ground comes into the Magnum via AC ground and DC ground on the Magnum chassis. Without the DC ground connection I am not sure if its Magnum MMS 1012 chassis is grounded. The Morningstar 300W required ground connection.

I pretty much follow mfgs’ installation instructions.

George.
 

rollerbearing

Well-known member
Graphite Dave,

Without power applied to your unit, I would measure the resistance between the Neg input wire and the SAMLEX case and the SAMLEX lug. Also measure the resistance between the case and the lug. I strongly suspect the case and lug are connected as you say. I would also measure the resistance between the ground prong opening of the 120 socket of the SAMLEX and the SAMLEX case, ground lug, and negative DC lead (with power off! of course).

With out power on the Magnum, do the same thing to the Magnum.

Working out the safety/ground bonding issues are the most important. If the connecting of the cases does not intefere with this safety, it is probably ok to do so. By all indications things look like they are going to be fine - but it's possible to wind up with a path one didn't anticipate.

And, Is your ground terminal block connected to the chassis?
 
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rollerbearing

Well-known member
I fully agree with George on following directions - with the caveat of careful consideration. The reason being that the directions may address the NEC for an off grid residence, but not fully consider that the application may be off grid, on grid, a subpanel, a close proximity outbuilding, or an RV that could share a shore power connection.

Case in Point:

If the Morningstar was wired as shown and then only the "defined as hot" side of the Morningstar switched at a subpanel that shares the same "neutral" bus as shore power, then the "neutral" bus has been bonded to ground within the RV. Now part of the "neutral" current is free to return to the shore power pillar through any metal part of the RV. Those people who know just enough about home wiring to wire things up like they do in their homes could unintentionally create a bad situation.

So follow instructions with careful consideration.
 
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rollerbearing

Well-known member
Graphite Dave,

Just to be certain that your house system truly truly is floating Measure the DC Voltage between the house battery POS and Chassis (with the battery connected of course).
 

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