Swirl flap mechanicals

dharmasprint

Well-known member
Among the codes I have on my 2011 MB Sprinter is one indicating that the swirl flap position sensor is indicating an implausible position. While this could be a faulty sensor, it's also possible that there is something broken or damaged on the flap actuating assembly. While poking around on amazon, I came across this kit for repairing / modifying the assemblies.

Has anyone had experience using or doing this mod? I am trying to determine if it's worthwhile given what's involved in getting at the swirl flap mechanisms.
 

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kylesw

New member
I'm been reading up on the swirl valve issues and from what I understand, fixing the broken linkage doesn't address the root cause of the issue.

The cause of the broken linkage is the swirl valves seizing over time, so when the motor tries to push the linkage, it will eventually break, giving you the implausible position code.

So, assuming your swirl valves are stuck, from what I have found, the only two fixes are to replace the intake manifold (which contains the new swirl valves), linkage, and actuator, or it sounds like periodic seafoam injections may help as well:
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52033&highlight=seafoam+inject

To the sprinter experts here - are there any other solutions?
 

220817a

Independent & Self Reliant - From Chattanooga TN
Among the codes I have on my 2011 MB Sprinter is one indicating that the swirl flap position sensor is indicating an implausible position. While this could be a faulty sensor, it's also possible that there is something broken or damaged on the flap actuating assembly. While poking around on amazon, I came across this kit for repairing / modifying the assemblies.

Has anyone had experience using or doing this mod? I am trying to determine if it's worthwhile given what's involved in getting at the swirl flap mechanisms.
The easiest and cheapest option would be to completely delete the function of EKAS system. Any other options could cost you thousand of dollars.

For your van with the EDC17CP01 you will need a clone KTag (cheapest option) programmer to be able to read the flash memory of the ECU.
 

Kajtek1

2015 3500 X long limo RV
x2 on getting to the roots of the problem instead of finding a patch for results.
Here is intake manifold on OM642 in sedan with 180k miles. This is small build up as I have seem much worse.
Do you really think stronger pushrod is going to fix it?
 

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220817a

Independent & Self Reliant - From Chattanooga TN
x2 on getting to the roots of the problem instead of finding a patch for results.
Here is intake manifold on OM642 in sedan with 180k miles. This is small build up as I have seem much worse.
Do you really think stronger pushrod is going to fix it?
If you would have deleted the EGR, it would have helped.
 

dharmasprint

Well-known member
x2 on getting to the roots of the problem instead of finding a patch for results.
Here is intake manifold on OM642 in sedan with 180k miles. This is small build up as I have seem much worse.
Do you really think stronger pushrod is going to fix it?
I'm somewhat familiar with intake manifold deposits having dealt with walnut blasting on Audi direct injection engines.

I have to dismantle a goodly amount of the engine to deal with a bunch of defective glow plugs, so depending on what I found, I am willing to do the work necessary to solve the issue. The question remains though. Is that part a worthy upgrade to an obviously under engineered part?
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
x2 on getting to the roots of the problem instead of finding a patch for results.
Here is intake manifold on OM642 in sedan with 180k miles. This is small build up as I have seem much worse.
Do you really think stronger pushrod is going to fix it?
That's where the upper BG cylinder purge out, comes in to play .
From positive experience we run the purge activity then strip out --negates all that carbon scraping and junk ingress over the valves & seats .

Sometimes (NOT always) it recovers the EKAS sweep stroke problem, and no teardown is necessary.
Simple things first!
Dennis
 

manwithgun

Unknown member
That's where the upper BG cylinder purge out, comes in to play .
From positive experience we run the purge activity then strip out --negates all that carbon scraping and junk ingress over the valves & seats .

Dennis
I've often wondered what happens at the valve seats when the sludge and carbon build up comes free and passes through the cylinder. And I don't think it could be incinerated completely, so does it contaminate and plug up the emission components farther down the line? Are regens able to burn it all away?

On a side note, when I removed my intakes for a cleaning, after chiseling, scraping, and de-carboning down to the aluminum, the valves were still stuck. It was the butterfly shaft pivots that were actually frozen.

EDIT: I eventually got the flaps to free up with penetrating oil after removing the connecting bar and white pin locking tabs/plugs and they are still in use today, 5 years or so later.
 
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smiller

2008 View J (2007 NCV3 3500)
As above, if really stuck then you are looking at big $$ for manifold replacement. There is a simple method to spoof the actuator module with a resistor that works with some non-Sprinter 3.0L engines, but on the Sprinter there are also switches that detect when the linkages are on their fully closed stops and if the ECU doesn't see the linkages coming off their stops when the actuator motor is commanded then... fault code.

It seems that it wouldn't be all that difficult to come up with a simple box that detects the signal to the actuator and provides a corresponding signal spoofing the limit switches operating, but I don't know of anyone who has built one. Probably not much market for it because the better solution is a tune that deletes both EGR and EKAS, but that isn't easily available for later model years.
 

showkey

Well-known member
The real issue is EGR is recirculating dirty, sooty, oily and just plain nasty crap back into the intake.

This is NOT new:
EGR a has been a problem for over 50 years in gas engines.....plugging, coking, clogging and causing drivability issues.............the diesel EGR and need to recirc much larger volumes of exhaust only make the problems worse. Then add pressure and temperature sensors, coolers, swirl valves add 10 times the amount of failure points and huge cost increases.
 
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smiller

2008 View J (2007 NCV3 3500)
The real issue is EGR is recirculating dirty, sooty, oily and just plain nasty crap back into the intake.
True enough, exhaust gas soot combined with PCV oil mist had got to be almost a perfect recipe for causing the crap buildup that is at the root of these problems.

The diesel emissions puzzle seems to be a series of fixes to fixes... EGR lowers peak combustion temperature to help control NOx, but lower combustion temperatures increase particulate output so you need a DPF to help fix the fix, and so on. SCR systems might help a bit in that they reduce the amount of EGR required, but they in turn generate a host of new and expensive problems on their own. Some systems are better than others in terms of reliability but they all are extremely complex, requiring a lot of knowledge/technical understanding and expensive parts to maintain. Unfortunately from many of the accounts I see here dealers often aren't so good at the knowledge part but are pretty good at swapping expensive parts.

I don't have to worry about EGR/EKAS issues on my current Sprinter and hoping to see a good service life, but sadly I have to say that I wouldn't buy another modern diesel-powered vehicle unless I banked significant funds for the certain expensive repairs down the line and included those in the real cost of ownership. If you're determined to own a new-ish diesel vehicle then service contracts can help (about the only situation I would ever consider one), but they often exclude coverage for emissions systems making them worthless in that regard.

.
 
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dharmasprint

Well-known member
So gentlemen, the bottom line is what exactly? Is it a worthwhile mod assuming that everything in this engineering horror show is working?
 

220817a

Independent & Self Reliant - From Chattanooga TN
So gentlemen, the bottom line is what exactly? Is it a worthwhile mod assuming that everything in this engineering horror show is working?
Are you asking for the opinion of the people that actually own modified vehicles or do modification? Or you simply want the opinion of people that simply talk about it but never owned a modified vehicle or do modification by themselves?
 

smiller

2008 View J (2007 NCV3 3500)
If anyone here had actual experience using that particular repair kit then I'm sure they would have mentioned it. As to whether it's worth a go or not, depends on some of the things discussed in the thread, such as it the linkage that is foobar or are the flap valves actually stuck in place, etc. But it doesn't look that expensive so I guess it would be worth having on hand when you go in. In the OP you said 'Among the codes...' What other codes are present?
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
OK I will chime in.
The earlier CD14 engine was horrible for linkage wear. The driver's side was worst affected on left hookers.
I put that down to the fact that the left bank was closer to the turbo casing than the RHT passenger side, and heat was attacking the rearmost pivot since it wore much more aggressively than the rest! Especially when compared with the right side manifold set.

Of course with that came with oil cooler /HE leaking issue leaking fiasco, and the dumbbell seals fiasco, so we were often pulling it all up again to attend to that problem as well!

Now add the turbo impeller and shaft collapse issues and top end intervention was a very commonplace shop task.

The manifolds in those days were $1150 & $1350 a pair at least they (MB) slung in the new swirl valve motor arr' for that heady price....

Then the CD16 Blurrtech variant came on the scene in 2010 and the same old cooler sealing problems AND the perennial turbo collapse issues came with it.

Now what did change was the engine wiring harness configuration and the introduction of a big silicon rubber wedge plug molded around the harness & it sat in a cavity aft of the EKAS manifold. A bit of a cheap and cheerful addition to the build and it did shield the EKAS linkage system from the heat.
Suddenly we were seeing removed manifolds being used again, simply because the wear issue had been largely reduced. Then it became obvious that Pierborg, the manufacturer had in fact improved the materials used with the linkage & pivots. Of course these issues are largely eradicated today as the items mentioned are far more reliable by product improvement.
Consequently and due to the enhanced reliability we have never actually implemented that modification due to product cut improvements again.

I have to state that the CD14 engine was really a dirty bugger, and carbon build up with oily soot a common observation. Not alone of course! The Ford 6 Litre diesel family suffered with very the same issues in 2008 & 2009.

We have found that a regular BG purge, say every 60,000 to 80,000 miles keeps the upper area cleaned out and free of choking carbon deposits . Beneficial on CD14 for sure!
Dennis

ps about two years ago a new turbo impeller was introduced & that eliminated the sudden and abrupt turbine failures . The thing is now made from a solid billet machine piece instead of an extruded unit.
Phew "after all them yurs they got it right!"
The 5 axis machine must have cost someone millions of dollars to form that impeller!
Dennis
 

dharmasprint

Well-known member
If anyone here had actual experience using that particular repair kit then I'm sure they would have mentioned it. As to whether it's worth a go or not, depends on some of the things discussed in the thread, such as it the linkage that is foobar or are the flap valves actually stuck in place, etc. But it doesn't look that expensive so I guess it would be worth having on hand when you go in. In the OP you said 'Among the codes...' What other codes are present?
Other codes are related to glow plugs, of which as many as 4 maybe dead and at least 1 of the NOx sensors and possibly the forward O2 sensor. The engine is the V6 blooper tech and has 220,000 km km the clock.

The van is asleep for the winter but I expect to start poking around the engine come April, assuming that the snow melts on time...... .
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
If anyone here had actual experience using that particular repair kit then I'm sure they would have mentioned it. As to whether it's worth a go or not, depends on some of the things discussed in the thread, such as it the linkage that is foobar or are the flap valves actually stuck in place, etc. But it doesn't look that expensive so I guess it would be worth having on hand when you go in. In the OP you said 'Among the codes...' What other codes are present?
Specifically I have never installed one for the reason I have explained in my last text posting, (i.e product improvement) but that's not to say I haven't seen it applied to an engine we have had to repair.
First of all, for me running a shop business its essential to make sure the EKAS manifolding is in good shape and likely to live through the unrelated warranty period of say oil cooler/HE repair without faulting out, otherwise it will be a comeback.
In short comebacks are costly, and I have calculated that even a simple comeback costs the business a $175 minimum overhead.

We have fixed countless numbers of these engines with EKAS related issues or having discovered during tear down, that they won't go the distance without further wear related failures . So we have to go back to the customer and explain that further replacement costs are involved in the execution of a successful repair being a matter of expediency.

So I can remember now in the mist of time, two such modified EKAS systems which were pulled out and found to have been modified using these linkage arrangements.
I remember the arms were really very worn on fulcrum holes on one and the other had sheered off the arm at the base off #1 cylinder inlet port probably due to a seizure.

I suppose was installing the metal linkages a matter of expediency to recover an largely worn set of EKAS linkages and save $2500 being a salient question.
For a possible answer?
Probably since it worked for a while and then failed with a new owner having to foot the bill for new manifolds.

Since we BG purge such engines before teardown there is a strong evidence to suggest a flow bias exists within the manifold set .The passenger side getting the better air flow on (LHD units ) and #1 cylinder the front left side being the worst.
Since the A side EKAS always seems to fail first by propensity, the answer to some of this probably lies somewhere with air flow since it ends up being a dirty bugger, when having to fix it if it does short trip cycles as an operating norm .
Dennis.
 
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dharmasprint

Well-known member
Which BG formula are you using to do the cleaning? I still have the pressure vessel I used for induction cleaning the Audi engine.
 

showkey

Well-known member
:thinking:The expectation that any product injected into the fuel system.......goes through the combustion process, exhausted, gore through the EGR is still going to be solvent capable of dissolving and cleaning and removing built up carbon that been Accumulating for 150,00 miles ?????

There is another post where member metered large amounts of solvent directing into the intake manifold in an attempt to clean the swirl valves. Todd from Wisconsin was the OP.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52033&highlight=Swirl+valve+cleaning

Yes, I know some gas engines with direct injection need the intake valves cleaned.......solvents or blasting is often the fix. That’s far different from Diesel EGR carbon which far greater in volume and magnitude.
 
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lindenengineering

Well-known member
The liquid is BG ISC.
If you have the pressure sensor vessel, then you will need the injector, and the dispenser pipe work, plus of course manifold adapter & air metering air sleeve of some sort which is is supplied in the BG kit .
The big secret is the injector timer which injects fluid every 3 or 12 second pulses.

Essential for engine protection when running & purging.
We also put BG EPR in the engine oil before starting the purge to clean out the lower side of the engine.
Often the crankcase oil comes out like liquid tar on the real dirty buggers we have seen.
Dennis
 
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