Sprinter-Forum    
 

Go Back   Sprinter-Forum > T1N Sprinters > T1N Talk

T1N Talk General Discussions related to T1N Sprinters.


 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-07-2019, 09:53 PM   #1
Smokeater
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 4
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default 2003 Sprinter engine swap High Pressure Injection pump problem

Hello everyone. I have a small problem/question. I have a 2003 Dodge Sprinter 2500 cargo van. The 2.7 that was in it suffered massive blow by after 235k miles. I found a guy in Houston who rebuilds them and offered a 100k warranty on the engines. I took the original 2.7 down and he swapped me a new one or so I thought. Turns out I had recieved an 04-06 motor. So I had to take it back down so they could swap the camshaft and valve cover. My mechanic got everything back together and there is one issue. The high pressure injection pump is different. I have done a little research and it appears the 04-06 is also a mechanical pump. But can I purchase a new 04-06 pump and make it work? I would like to avoid having to take the engine back down to Houston again. Any help, input, or advice is much appreciated.
Smokeater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 10:02 PM   #2
hkpierce
'02 140 Hi BlueBlk Pass
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,704
Thanks: 603
Thanked 1,575 Times in 723 Posts
Default Re: 2003 Sprinter engine swap High Pressure Injection pump problem

So you gave an OM612 and they returned an OM647? The high pressure pumps are different, as are the intake manifolds, rail, ECUs and harnesses. Someone like MillionMileSprinter of this forum can tell you additional information.
hkpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 10:32 PM   #3
lindenengineering
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Littleton Colorado
Posts: 13,143
Thanks: 3,238
Thanked 11,046 Times in 5,606 Posts
Default Re: 2003 Sprinter engine swap High Pressure Injection pump problem

Oh good lord.
The head on OM 612 engine is different, since the front pump aperture and fixing bolt locations are dis-similar to the OM647's HPOP pump sizing etc .

Indeed if you dig down some more even the later OM647 versions have two sizes of valves listed, it all depending upon year & build spec .

Then what must be taken into account is that the rail pressure on a OM612 and the later OM647 FIE system operates at a slightly higher pressures.

Interchange the inlet manifold if you must but you can't getaway from the fact that the basic head is different.
Dennis
lindenengineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 02:41 AM   #4
Smokeater
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 4
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 2003 Sprinter engine swap High Pressure Injection pump problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkpierce View Post
So you gave an OM612 and they returned an OM647? The high pressure pumps are different, as are the intake manifolds, rail, ECUs and harnesses. Someone like MillionMileSprinter of this forum can tell you additional information.
From what I can tell yes. Then I took it back explaining I have an 03 T1N and all they did was swap a cam and a valve cover. I'm pretty pissed off at the moment. I bought new injectors, fuel pump, radiator, turbo, and many other parts. Needless to say I'm a little frustrated that I'm having to deal with this kind of problem. That's why I wanted to know if it could work. But I was only mildly hopeful. Looks like another 8 hours of driving to have them fix their screw up.
Smokeater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 06:15 AM   #5
lindenengineering
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Littleton Colorado
Posts: 13,143
Thanks: 3,238
Thanked 11,046 Times in 5,606 Posts
Default Re: 2003 Sprinter engine swap High Pressure Injection pump problem

Clearly you had someone build an engine who was short on product familiarity.
If you ordered an engine for that van then you should be supplied with it conforming to the spec.
Its called specific performance unless you specified otherwise .
All the best albeit a bit troubling.
Dennis
lindenengineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 07:09 AM   #6
vanski
'05 Box Snow Camper
 
vanski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SFBA, CA
Posts: 1,758
Thanks: 811
Thanked 748 Times in 533 Posts
Default Re: 2003 Sprinter engine swap High Pressure Injection pump problem

Wowzer.. what a screw up.

So it’s running? I’m assuming the pump is the om647 (04-06) variant, correct? Can the hpfp from an om612 even fit on the head of a 647 head? And so if it’s a 647 head, there’s no mechanical lift pump, cam actuated, on the head, correct? And your tank doesn’t have the in-tank pump, how is the high pressure pump getting fuel?

Hmmmmm. Little confused as to how the thing is even running. Could he swap the tank with a 647 tank with in-tank lift pump? please don’t tell me he drilled a hole in the new 647 head, swapped the cam, just to mount the cam actuated low pressure lift pump..
vanski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 01:22 PM   #7
Smokeater
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 4
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 2003 Sprinter engine swap High Pressure Injection pump problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanski View Post
Wowzer.. what a screw up.

So itís running? Iím assuming the pump is the om647 (04-06) variant, correct? Can the hpfp from an om612 even fit on the head of a 647 head? And so if itís a 647 head, thereís no mechanical lift pump, cam actuated, on the head, correct? And your tank doesnít have the in-tank pump, how is the high pressure pump getting fuel?

Hmmmmm. Little confused as to how the thing is even running. Could he swap the tank with a 647 tank with in-tank lift pump? please donít tell me he drilled a hole in the new 647 head, swapped the cam, just to mount the cam actuated low pressure lift pump..
No it's not even back in the van yet. Everything fit back on it but the fuel pump. See this is why I asked. I'll be calling him Monday and getting it fixed. Looks like my van will be sitting a while longer.
Smokeater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 02:50 PM   #8
lindenengineering
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Littleton Colorado
Posts: 13,143
Thanks: 3,238
Thanked 11,046 Times in 5,606 Posts
Default Re: 2003 Sprinter engine swap High Pressure Injection pump problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokeater View Post
No it's not even back in the van yet. Everything fit back on it but the fuel pump. See this is why I asked. I'll be calling him Monday and getting it fixed. Looks like my van will be sitting a while longer.
Well its only money.
The older head is a bit tougher to get.
Add that to the fact that on most of these MB engine family rebuilds about 30 to 40% are found beyond redemption on head re-works , so that means a new one.

When it comes to rebuild costs, a new head cuts into profits SIGNIFICANTLY when you have to outlay $2500 for new.
With a Jasper "long block plus" at around $7700 there is not much margins for profit unless you skimp on parts or quality .
Only recently I looked at one Texas built engine that wasn't rebuild as stated but simply freshened up for $4700. A piston & rod from A N another engine and the size grade was not to spec for the bore So it partially seized.

With a five set of pistons and re-bore at $1750 up as bare cost, an MB factory rebuild starts to focus in as good value for money at $9500 being a complete drop in .
Sticking to quality plus value as a "first" our in house Linden engine price is about $1000 cheaper than a Jasper alternative, but an MB exchange engine hassle free is my preference "every time" if budget isn't a total consideration.
Dennis
lindenengineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 03:50 PM   #9
vanski
'05 Box Snow Camper
 
vanski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SFBA, CA
Posts: 1,758
Thanks: 811
Thanked 748 Times in 533 Posts
Default Re: 2003 Sprinter engine swap High Pressure Injection pump problem

Of course Dennis is THE man when it comes to doing motor swaps correctly and without headaches other than the cost which may not be attractive..

Having said that, it sounds like you’re trying to somehow make the 647 motor work.. or you just don’t have a choice at this point. If you have a choice, I’d 100% cut your losses, ask for either your money back or a 612 motor instead.

Let’s talk about being creative with the 647 motor. And this assumes your engine control module can even plug in to the 647 primary wiring harness? You may want to check that before you go any further... the low pressure ‘suck’ type of fuel lift pump which supplies fuel to the high pressure fp is already a problem area in the 612 motors as it’s very prone to air intrusion and related no start conditions.. So look at this as an opportunity to improve your vehicle. So a possibility could be to put the 647 hpfp on, swap in a 647 fuel tank, wire in a relay to supply current to the in-tank lift pump when the key is in the ‘on’ position, and stays on when motor is turned over, swap out the fuel supply and return lines with 647 lines, new 647 style fuel filter, splice in 647 water in fuel filter sensor plug and get the 647 WIF sensor (I’m going to assume resistance values the ecm is looking fo are the same)...

I know the injectors are slightly different between the 612 and 647 motors.. will the ecm give the appropriate injection firing sequence to these injectors?

I’m all for being creative, but there sure are some hurdles here.. not sure how he’s going to supply a 100k warranty on the incorrect motor supplied either?????
vanski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 03:55 PM   #10
Midwestdrifter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 11,336
Thanks: 2,234
Thanked 7,520 Times in 4,755 Posts
Default Re: 2003 Sprinter engine swap High Pressure Injection pump problem

If you can't get them to fix your problem, there was a user here who put the 647 pump on the 612 fuel system. Not sure what changes needed to be made, but he said it ran fine. It was in the T1N turbo upgrade thread IIRC.
__________________
2004 T1N | Overland Conversion in Process Completed...For now... | 187,000 miles | 140" | High Roof | My Build Thread
Another Random Blog | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com
Midwestdrifter is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.