Sprinter-Forum    
 

Go Back   Sprinter-Forum > T1N Sprinters > T1N Talk

T1N Talk General Discussions related to T1N Sprinters.


 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-14-2020, 05:37 PM   #1
wakeslasher
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 11
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Hard limp, bugged CAN system.. ABS unresponsive

Ok, I'm stumped.

Here's the symptoms:
- Gear selector locked, when forced into "D" runs great but stuck in 2nd gear.
- Have Traction, ABS, ESP, red "brake" light, orange triangle "!" lights on
- Codes for Maf issues p0100, p0102 Scanned with MBii
- Codes for Output Speed Sensor Circuit P0720, P0500, U0122, p0702 TCM electrical
- Code B1041-000 CAN comm. with Brake system module faulty (CURRENT AND STORED)
- Also Code off and on for Comm. with Tcm modual faulty

With MBii I cannot link to ABS to read or view error codes. When the engine is running and I attempted to clear MAF codes from OBDII section, engine dies immediately. With engine off and key ON, MBii says codes cleared successfully but MAF codes are still there. From "sprinter" section connecting through Automatic mode, ABS option is not present, through Manual system select, ABS/ESP pops up but cannot connect.

I think there is/was some issue with the transmission or ABS, the problem may or may not be solved. Regardless, the van is stuck in hard limp mode and the TCM and ABS system error codes cannot be read and cleared in order to get out of it.
Possibly the MAF issue is separate, but it maybe would go with the theory that there is some overall issue with CAN connecting with multiple systems.

Things I have tried:
-Tested Battery, inspected and cleaned grounds
_replaced Brake switch, verified proper brake bulb operation.
-Drained ATF, removed and cleaned conductor plate and replaced adapter plug.
-Cleaned harness connection at Transmission and TCM
-Swapped TCM
-Cleaned and inspected connections at ECM and OBD plug.

I'm not great with CAN system diag, I've pored over posts related to this issue and done the steps described to solve it. Same problem persists and the van will not leave 2nd gear. The Van is on a flat bed on its way to a known sprinter mecanic in the hopes that his fancy Snapon Reader can hack the main frame and restore order the ABS Communication system

The main symptoms I have that I have not seen others describe are:
Van dies when trying to clear OBD2 codes
MBii Can not communicate with ABS or Transmission

Im open to all suggestions here.. at this point I'm all out of rabbit holes to venture down.

Last edited by wakeslasher; 01-14-2020 at 05:50 PM.
wakeslasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 06:59 PM   #2
autostaretx
Erratic Member
 
autostaretx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 18,031
Thanks: 3,149
Thanked 8,246 Times in 5,992 Posts
Default Re: Hard limp, bugged CAN system.. ABS unresponsive

Among the first things to check is that all of your tail lights are operating properly.
Having a mis-set bulb in the Brake and/or license plate can cause symptoms like this
(the "all bulbs" on the instrument panel is a definite symptom)

A wire falling loose in the rear door (i.e. license plate light) or on the spring-fingers that feed it can cause this.

How's that for an unexpected rabbit hole?

--dick
__________________
2005 T1N 118" Freightliner 2500 Passenger Wagon (2.7L, 15" tires, standard (short) roof)
Get YOUR Sprinter's full configuration datacard by entering your VIN to https://www.datamb.com/
http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference <-- lots of service documentation, Thanks to Jens Moller and Arnie_Oli
((as always: this post may go through a couple of post-posting edits... so maybe give it ten minutes before commenting))
autostaretx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 09:17 PM   #3
Midwestdrifter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 11,056
Thanks: 2,171
Thanked 7,296 Times in 4,625 Posts
Default Re: Hard limp, bugged CAN system.. ABS unresponsive

Have you confirmed good voltage at the ECM with the engine running? Have you checked the harness in the engine bay for damage?

So you can, or cannot clear codes from the TCM?

If your speedometer works, then your ABS module is getting wheel speed signals, and is sending them over canbus.
__________________
2004 T1N | Overland Conversion in Process Completed...For now... | 187,000 miles | 140" | High Roof | My Build Thread
Another Random Blog | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com
Midwestdrifter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 09:59 PM   #4
wakeslasher
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 11
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Hard limp, bugged CAN system.. ABS unresponsive

Thanks Guys:

AutoStaretx thanks for the Brake idea, unfortunately I've already exhausted that theory and came up empty handed.

Midwestdrifter:
Checking voltages at ECM right now.
I've worked the harness pretty good looking for damage and hoping that bending/working it will produce a change in behavior but nothings come of it yet.
I cannot clear TCM codes, or ABS. My mechanic is looking at it as well and cannot get his scan tool to access ABS either.
The Speedometer does not work! maybe some good clue there
wakeslasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 10:14 PM   #5
Midwestdrifter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 11,056
Thanks: 2,171
Thanked 7,296 Times in 4,625 Posts
Default Re: Hard limp, bugged CAN system.. ABS unresponsive

You can't clear, but you can read codes?
__________________
2004 T1N | Overland Conversion in Process Completed...For now... | 187,000 miles | 140" | High Roof | My Build Thread
Another Random Blog | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com
Midwestdrifter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 10:43 PM   #6
wakeslasher
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 11
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Hard limp, bugged CAN system.. ABS unresponsive

I can Read OBDII codes using my MBii, these include some codes related to the Transmission. I can perform a delete of these codes, the van actually dies when I do if its running at the time. The MAF codes are active and come straight back in less time than I can blink (literally), tried swapping MAFS and unplugging altogether but nothei
I can access Cluster Error codes Using MBII, tried clearing but "Output Speed Sensor Circuit P0720" remains active.
I Cannot read or Connect to ABS or TCM, a normal function of the MBII I've used on other vans many times. It doesn't even show in the menu, My mechanics fancy Snap-On tool cannot talk to ABS either.
wakeslasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2020, 03:35 AM   #7
99sport
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 181
Thanks: 63
Thanked 146 Times in 67 Posts
Default Re: Hard limp, bugged CAN system.. ABS unresponsive

If you can't communicate with a module I'll offer 3 potential causes: 1 - it doesn't exist. This only applies to ABS / ESP - you have one OR the other. My van is a 2005 and therefore has ESP. Even thogh the MB ii lists ABS I cannot communicate with ABS (get an error), but I can read all the ABS codes through the ESP option. 2 - no power to the module. Could be wiring, but more than likely the module is dead. Plug a junkyard module into the connector and see if you can communicate. 3 - CAN bus is down. See the many CAN bus diagnostics online, which I recall starts with measuring resistance on the canbus line to verify both termination resistors are present.

A bad MAF and CANbus down might explain all your symptoms. At the very least your ABS / ESP module isnt putting the wheel speed sensor data on the canbus. This explains: P0720 code, no spedo reading, no shifting. This could be a bad module or due to canbus error. (i had all those symptoms with a bad ESP module). Your instant MAF code could be bad wiring to the MAF or a bad MAF - the ECM is not getting a valid signal from the MAF. On a separate occassion I had your MAF symptoms and the source was bad ground connection at the ECM connector (slightly bending the pin was the fix, but had to backprobe the ECM connector and put the signal on an osciloscope to figure this out). Note that the online wiring diagram for the OM647 engine in the Dodge service manual has the pinouts for the MAF wrong (I think it might be a Euro pinout). This was one of Dr A's first comments when I called him for MAF help

Last edited by 99sport; 01-15-2020 at 03:55 AM.
99sport is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2020, 11:29 AM   #8
Midwestdrifter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 11,056
Thanks: 2,171
Thanked 7,296 Times in 4,625 Posts
Default Re: Hard limp, bugged CAN system.. ABS unresponsive

Diagnostics are performed using K-line , which is separate from the CANbus used by the modules to communicate with each other.
__________________
2004 T1N | Overland Conversion in Process Completed...For now... | 187,000 miles | 140" | High Roof | My Build Thread
Another Random Blog | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com
Midwestdrifter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2020, 03:44 PM   #9
99sport
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 181
Thanks: 63
Thanked 146 Times in 67 Posts
Default Re: Hard limp, bugged CAN system.. ABS unresponsive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwestdrifter View Post
Diagnostics are performed using K-line , which is separate from the CANbus used by the modules to communicate with each other.
So that rules out number 3 above. I suppose the K-line could be down, but I have no idea how that works (there is a lengthy thread on the K-line but it that was too technical for me). Seems to point to a bad (ESP?) module or less likely no power to the module as a cause for at least some of your symptoms.

I know you said you are off to a mechanic with a Snap-on tool, but a Xentry clone is another consideration. It has really good diagnostics and all of the wiring diagrams and troubleshooting steps are displayed for each code. It is helpful with really hard problems like this to even seemingly easy problems like getting the stupid door lock actuators to work (it reports status of all kinds of things - including individual door lock actuators).
99sport is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2020, 03:50 PM   #10
Midwestdrifter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 11,056
Thanks: 2,171
Thanked 7,296 Times in 4,625 Posts
Default Re: Hard limp, bugged CAN system.. ABS unresponsive

There have been instances of corrosion on the diagnostic port. Several modules share some of the K lines to the diagnostic port. Check the wiring diagrams. Its possible one module could be blocking the K line.

I also think a power supply or module issue could be the cause. You can swap the electronic part of the ESP/ABS unit. It separates from the hydraulic body and motor, which can be left connected to the lines.
__________________
2004 T1N | Overland Conversion in Process Completed...For now... | 187,000 miles | 140" | High Roof | My Build Thread
Another Random Blog | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com
Midwestdrifter is online now   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.