Sprinter-Forum    
 

Go Back   Sprinter-Forum > T1N Sprinters > T1N Talk

T1N Talk General Discussions related to T1N Sprinters.


 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-21-2018, 10:22 AM   #11
Eric Experience
 
Eric Experience's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Victoria Australia
Posts: 2,998
Thanks: 114
Thanked 1,657 Times in 1,093 Posts
Default Re: Rear diff/rear end noise. Like a spaceship.

Zund
In the rest of the world Mobil 1 is a very thin engine oil, you may have the correct product but we do not call it that in Aus. Eric.
Eric Experience is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 01:35 PM   #12
auto1
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 67
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Default Re: Rear diff/rear end noise. Like a spaceship.

Kind of have the same sound up around 65/70 mph.It's always been there.Changed rear fluid.different tires. I'm starting to think it's harmonics in the sheet metal.I am planning a insulation project in the future.
auto1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2018, 06:23 AM   #13
Zundfolge
1-2-4-5-3
 
Zundfolge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Woodacre, CA
Posts: 596
Thanks: 263
Thanked 274 Times in 166 Posts
Default Re: Rear diff/rear end noise. Like a spaceship.

Well somewhat of an update: I changed the diff fluid from the Mobil 1 75W-90 to new Fuchs Titan 80W-90 (meets 235.0). I do notice that the noises seem significantly diminished! There is still some resonance/high-ish pitch drone when accelerating esp above 35 mph or so. I still need to rotate tires but it sounds gear related still. Almost all of the wo-wo-wo sound while going downhill coasting is gone though. Now I forget what it's supposed to sound like anymore so I'll need to wait until I can visit a friend with a T1N for some comparison.

I had to do the fluid change in a hurry which made me make the STUPID mistake of not draining the oil into a clean pan where I could inspect the drained oil! The container I used had had some metal infused diff fluid drained into it in the past so I have no way of knowing whether the metal bits in there came from the sprinter diff, or my dead ex-dodge diff :( I guess I'll just wait a bit and see if symptoms recur, and drain the fluid at some time in the future to check for metal.

For me the moral of the story for now is to only use approved BEVO 235.0 and 235.8 fluids in your diff. Anecdotally I'll say to steer clear of Mobil 1 85W-90 LS...[/QUOTE]

Added edit:

The Wubb wubb symptom was apparently one bad roller.

DifferentialWubbWubb.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwestdrifter View Post
...

That might have been a defective roller? ...
That's my guess. Probably soft material inclusions or improper hardening in that particular bearing. It must have been or the other rollers and race would show even more problems.

Good that it was found early. Great pictures.

I believe that any blame that was laid on the Mobil 1 gear oil can be retracted.

vic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zundfolge View Post
Definitely retracted. I'll make sure related posts reflect this so it doesn't lead anyone astray...
__________________
'06 Sprinter ~270K
'83 Mercedes OM617 manual

https://nicktavasieff.smugmug.com

Last edited by Aqua Puttana; 12-19-2018 at 01:38 PM. Reason: Blue Added
Zundfolge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2018, 02:28 PM   #14
Aqua Puttana
Poly - Thread Finder
 
Aqua Puttana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Falls of Niagara, USA
Posts: 25,665
Thanks: 13,392
Thanked 14,583 Times in 9,265 Posts
Default Re: Rear diff/rear end noise. Like a spaceship.

Thanks for the update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zundfolge View Post
...

For me the moral of the story for now is to only use approved BEVO 235.0 and 235.8 fluids in your diff. Anecdotally I'll say to steer clear of Mobil 1 85W-90 LS...


Except that we really don't know if you had/have an existing problem. My guess is that there are many, many Sprinters owned by people who don't frequent Sprinter forums or use dealership service which are filled with Mobil 1 85w-90 fluid and doing fine.

It will be interesting to see if Oneofmanysons27 changes to MB spec fluid and the wub wub goes away. That will be at least one other data point of a sort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindenengineering View Post
Simply go into an autoparts store/Wallyworld and purchase 3 qrt bottles 75/90 Mobil 1 SYNTHETIC [#104361] gear oil and then it will be like a Tacoma.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/MOBIL-104...&wl13=&veh=sem
Dun Dun and Done
Dennis

vic
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

Last edited by Aqua Puttana; 11-28-2018 at 01:37 PM.
Aqua Puttana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 09:40 PM   #15
Aqua Puttana
Poly - Thread Finder
 
Aqua Puttana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Falls of Niagara, USA
Posts: 25,665
Thanks: 13,392
Thanked 14,583 Times in 9,265 Posts
Default Re: Rear diff/rear end noise. Like a spaceship.

Gotta love oil threads.

beatdeadhorse.gif

My 2004 Operator Manual specifies this:

2004ManualOilSpec01.jpg


I have read official MB literature where MB specifically states that the Operator Manual which came with the vehicle is always in effect.
(That said, at one time the manuals advocated a one time and done automatic transmission fluid change. Does anyone follow that anymore?)

Added Reference:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MB USA
Owners Manuals
Your Mercedes-Benz Owners Manuals are your go-to source for any information you need to know regarding the operation of your vehicle.
https://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/servi...owners_manuals
Unfortunately Sprinters don't seem to be included on the drop down selections.


So by the above 2004 manual, MB235.0 will always be good [for my 2004].

The Shell Spirax MB 90 product mentioned in the 2004 manual doesn't claim to be synthetic.
https://www.smithandallan.com/docume...0_(en)_TDS.pdf


MB235.0 Spec
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/235.0_en.html
Not all of the MB235.0 differential fluids listed are synthetic. There are various viscosities.

MB235.8 was mentioned previously as approved for Sprinters.
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/235.8_en.html
Not all of the MB235.8 differential fluids listed are synthetic. There is one viscosity. 75W-90.

Another thread had me looking back into BeVo. The synthetic gear oil sheet caught my eye.

In BeVo synthetic gear oil has a category.
(Synthetic gear oils (SAE 75W-85W, Specification 235.4)
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/235.4_en.html

First.
I am not saying to not use a synthetic gear oil in your transmission oops... differential.

But.
For a T1N, I see nothing in BeVo that would support that only synthetic lube needs be used in a Sprinter differential.

My point?
If you have refilled your differential with a good quality GL5 hypoid gear oil which is not synthetic, there is no reason to worry or panic. A conventional gear oil should probably be changed on a more conservative OCI vs a synthetic, but using a quality conventional gear oil instead of synthetic won't grenade your differential.

75W-140 viscosity was listed for the early T1N differentials. It does say synthetic.

2002ManualOilSpec.jpg

It could be argued that the reduction in newer models to 75W-90 was directly related to meeting mpg/emissions regulations. If that is true, it would follow that synthetic 75W-140 is ok for other year T1N's. (Some owners do already report using 75W-140.)

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...977#post681977

Brake Fluid

An aside.
Note that in the 2002 manual DOT 4 brake fluid is listed as correct, not DOT 4+.
Because the original MB Operator Manual ALWAYS applies, DOT 4 brake fluid is appropriate to use in the earlier model NAS aka NAFTA T1N's. (I have read where some of the DOT 4+ formulations are more susceptible to picking up water vs DOT 4 so 4+ needs more frequent maintenance changes. The 4+ dry boiling point starts higher, but tumbles more quickly. I use DOT 4.)

vic
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

Last edited by Aqua Puttana; 12-12-2018 at 04:01 PM. Reason: oops
Aqua Puttana is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Aqua Puttana For This Useful Post:
Zundfolge (12-09-2018)
Old 12-09-2018, 05:47 PM   #16
Zundfolge
1-2-4-5-3
 
Zundfolge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Woodacre, CA
Posts: 596
Thanks: 263
Thanked 274 Times in 166 Posts
Default Re: Rear diff/rear end noise. Like a spaceship.

Thanks for all of that Vic, not trying to be a PITA oil thread, and it seems I spoke too soon about the oil being an issue. My bad - but I also think it's good to have the processes documented in these threads, including the mistakes.

More update. While the new oil seemed to help at first, the sound has returned, and worse than ever. At highway speeds it's becoming very loud, it's wub wub at low speeds but becomes a higher pitch whine at high speeds, close to inaudible when off the gas pedal, but going up hills and accelerating it's very loud. Will see if a mic can pick it up. I'm going to drain the diff again and see if there are metal shards this time (see above why not to rush these things, I lost good information by forgetting to check for shards last time).

Had been looking through threads about rebuilding the diff, but it seems like it's not very DIY-friendly. I was thinking though that I'd grab one out of a junker and replace mine, and then rebuild mine on the bench as I have time and cold rainy winter days with nothing better to do (which never happens because I love weather and would rather be outside).

Any leads for rebuilt rear ends at a fair cost?

Oh and another thing I'm wondering, could this be symptomatic of a bad wheel bearing? It's not what I'm used to as being a bad bearing noise, but I guess I wouldn't rule it out.

One more: any sprinter gurus in Marin that are in need of a good six-pack or some good meat? (don't make it weird, not like that :)

Jk 2 more things:
Is there a difference between the 2500 pass vs. cargo van axles/diffs? (Other than leaf springs?)
Can anyone point me towards a write up or info on removing and repacking the center support bearing? Or is it as straightforward as it looks? Thinking of doing this first, even though it feels solid. However, thinking even just for a second though it's probably not that, since new fluid made the noise go away for a week or so...
__________________
'06 Sprinter ~270K
'83 Mercedes OM617 manual

https://nicktavasieff.smugmug.com

Last edited by Zundfolge; 12-09-2018 at 06:13 PM.
Zundfolge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2018, 06:54 PM   #17
Midwestdrifter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 11,348
Thanks: 2,237
Thanked 7,523 Times in 4,758 Posts
Default Re: Rear diff/rear end noise. Like a spaceship.

Replacing the differential and pinion bearings on these axles is not technically challenging, it is quite similar to a variety of domestic makes and models . Both halfshafts need unbolted at the wheel and pulled out , the diff carrier is then unbolted and new bearings installed, the same goes for the pinion bearings. torque everything to spec put it back together. The noise is almost exclusively during accell , then it's possible you only need new pinion bearings. These Require less time than replacing the differential carrier bearings.
__________________
2004 T1N | Overland Conversion in Process Completed...For now... | 187,000 miles | 140" | High Roof | My Build Thread
Another Random Blog | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com

Last edited by Midwestdrifter; 12-09-2018 at 07:44 PM.
Midwestdrifter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2018, 07:05 PM   #18
Zundfolge
1-2-4-5-3
 
Zundfolge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Woodacre, CA
Posts: 596
Thanks: 263
Thanked 274 Times in 166 Posts
Default Re: Rear diff/rear end noise. Like a spaceship.

Well that's encouraging, I'm pretty mechanically inclined so I'm not afraid of tearing into it if it's straightforward. Are there special tools required for the job?

I guess first thing is still check fluid and pull cover to inspect, while I'm in there is there a way to tell which parts might be the culprit, beyond visual inspection? (Wedging, moving, feeling, prying etc?)
__________________
'06 Sprinter ~270K
'83 Mercedes OM617 manual

https://nicktavasieff.smugmug.com
Zundfolge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2018, 07:48 PM   #19
Midwestdrifter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 11,348
Thanks: 2,237
Thanked 7,523 Times in 4,758 Posts
Default Re: Rear diff/rear end noise. Like a spaceship.

Unless there is excessive play, which is unusual, there is usually no way to tell without inspecting the bearing races directly, which can only be done with them removed.

You need a socket for the pinion nut , but assuming you don't remove the wheel bearings I don't believe any special tools are necessary. I have not done full extent of this job myself so I can give 100% confirmation.
__________________
2004 T1N | Overland Conversion in Process Completed...For now... | 187,000 miles | 140" | High Roof | My Build Thread
Another Random Blog | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com

Last edited by Midwestdrifter; 12-09-2018 at 07:50 PM.
Midwestdrifter is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Midwestdrifter For This Useful Post:
Zundfolge (12-09-2018)
Old 12-09-2018, 07:55 PM   #20
Zundfolge
1-2-4-5-3
 
Zundfolge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Woodacre, CA
Posts: 596
Thanks: 263
Thanked 274 Times in 166 Posts
Default Re: Rear diff/rear end noise. Like a spaceship.

OK I hope this audio file works, forum does not make adding files very easy. If you can hear it, this is low speed coasting downhill...
Attached Files
File Type: zip media.io_777bb6ae1efa63c42f9277f23c5b6c56.zip (586.1 KB, 45 views)
__________________
'06 Sprinter ~270K
'83 Mercedes OM617 manual

https://nicktavasieff.smugmug.com
Zundfolge is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.