ASSYST Oil Change Savings

2

220629

Well-known member
Yesterday after I changed the 2004 engine oil I got wondering how much the ASSYST can actually save on oil and filter costs.

I use a meticulous sophisticated method to record my oil changes.

2004oilChange.jpg

(I use grease pencil on the hood paint.)

The first oil change when I purchased it used was at 172,000 miles 4/20/2008
Yesterday was 315,700 miles 6/5/2017.

10 oil changes for 143,700 miles. Each ASSYST Oil Change Interval OCI has actually been right around the 14,000 mile average. Some were a bit higher, some lower. 12K low/16K high. Yesterday's change was actually done 600 miles prior to hitting the ASSYST countdown "0" point.

Using a 10,000 mile OCI would have resulted in 14 oil changes or +4.

Savings.
DIY synthetic oil change for me = approx. $32.00 for oil and filter. 4 x 32 = $128.00 saved.

The more typical DIY oil change cost:
9 quarts synthetic oil = approx. $45 to $50.00
Oil filter = approx. $10.00
Approx. $60.00/oil change.
-4 oil changes = approx. $240.00 saved.

Typical dealership oil change savings = 4 x whatever is common pricing for a T1N.

So I haven't saved a ton of money by using the ASSYST OCI indicated, but it has saved some.

Some would say that the savings is not worth taking the risk over a simple 10,000 mile OCI. The MB ASSYST monitor method is working for me. My engine hasn't exploded yet. (knock/touch wood.)

My 2006 doesn't have ASSYST. :bash: Based upon my 2004 use/ASSYST history I plan to use a 10 - 12,000 mile OCI with the 2006.

vic
 
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2

220629

Well-known member
smiller said:
Not changing the oil at all saves even more money... for a while... :smilewink:
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Yep.

I worked with some characters over the years.

One guy didn't change his oil at all. He just topped it off when he occasionally changed the oil filter... maybe based upon the phase of the moon. He thought we were crazy to change engine oil regularly. Last I knew his Dodge pickup was 9 years old. It probably went longer.

Another guy changed his oil every 1000 miles. "If 3000 miles is good, 1000 miles is even better." No change and Thousand miler used to have some heated discussions.

The kicker with the thousand miler? A co-worker worked a deal to get the 1000 mile OCI drained oil. He used that used oil for maintenance changes on his car and his wife's car. He never needed to buy oil.

:cheers: vic
 
CJPJ

CJPJ

2008 3500 170 EXTD 3.0 V6 OM642.993 4.182
No change and Thousand miler used to have some heated discussions.

image.gif ... this oil change behavior could also be a indicator of their life behavior: Vic, which one was healthier, or lived the healthier life style?
 
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Lotus54

Member
I was in a high school 3-hour auto mechanics class.
First engine job I did was a car that the owner never, ever changed the oil. We did a short block, and the heads were horrible. Had to hot tank them and hours cleaning everything. The piston oil drain-back holes were completely plugged. Everything in the engine was plugged up, coked up and a general mess.

I change the transmission oil quite often on my OSSA trials bikes- but that lubricates the main bearings and only 450cc. So well worth it. (It has a 2-stroke engine with cassette transmission, 'cassette' type crankshaft, once piece engine case, fuel injected, cylinder tilted toward the rear, exhaust out the back and more)

I'd tend to change a bit early, but 1000 is a bit much!

Mark
 
2

220629

Well-known member
For those who may not be familiar with the optional equipment T1N ASSYST Maintenance as to oil changes there is some information here.

Aqua Puttana said:
It amazes me how much people resist extended oil changes... based upon what? If extended oil changes were truly damaging engines the manufacturers wouldn't recommend them (especially the very conservative Mercedes Benz.) and you'd be reading about the dangers daily from experts on sites like Bobistheoilguy. The majority of oil experts seem to support extended oil changes. Just because there may be a few technicians who have "looked at used oil under a microscope" so I don't go past XXXX miles, doesn't negate lots of other more detailed research.
....

[Added: In my opinion Mercedes may have gone too far with recommending a 20,000 mile OCI. I would use something closer to a 10,000 mile OCI. I have no data, only opinion.]

mean_in_green said:
All ASSYST does is measure viscosity in a cell with a heating element. It times temperature increase within the cell, differing viscosities taking different times for a given increase or temperature. Other oil qualities aren't assessed.
Click to expand...
According to the MB BEVO documentation it does more than just have a test cell.

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_215_0.pdf

Page #13

3.12 ASSYST Active Service System
With a production breakpoint of February 1997, the
previous maintenance system for passenger cars with rigid
intervals was superseded by an Active Service System
known as "ASSYST".
Beginning with the W 210 4>Matic in 02/97 and phased in on
the remaining model series as of 06/97 (except G 463, 09/97)
the introduction followed.

i see also:
> Introduction into Service manual passenger cars model
series 210 Innovations February/March 1997
> Video "Model series 210 Innovations model year 1997"
> WIS (microfiche) overall system description,
GF00.20>P>0999AZ


"ASSYST" makes it possible for the first time for Mercedes>
Benz to have service intervals of up to 40,000 km or 2 years
(min. 15,000 km or 1 year). The system takes into account
individually the driving style of the customer by evaluating
engine speed, engine temperature, engine load and time. The timing
of the service required is calculated
and the due date is displayed to the customer in the instrument cluster.

********
FWIW. vic
Click to expand...
Added:
Aqua Puttana said:
Old Crows said:
So, ASSYST is actually like the GM oil condition monitor that measures and monitors several operating parameters?

https://www.yourmechanic.com/articl...t-service-indicator-lights-by-brent-minderler
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Yep. It does monitor oil condition and driving/operating.

I can say that I have been impressed that the couple times which I've needed to top off a quart of oil on the 2004, the ASSYST gave me 500 additional miles on the oil change countdown. It wouldn't do that unless the monitor noticed a change from the new oil.

It could be argued that the 500 miles was triggered by the simple level monitor, but from my research it is a more complex monitor system than that.

:2cents: vic
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As always the original thread/post can be accessed by clicking the blue arrow icon within any quote box.

vic
 
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2

220629

Well-known member
CJPJ said:
... this oil change behavior could also be a indicator of their life behavior: Vic, which one was healthier, or lived the healthier life style?
Click to expand...
:idunno:

1000 Miler was smoker and lost one lung to cancer. No Change didn't have any major health issues that I can recall.

:cheers: vic
 
Cheyenne

Cheyenne

UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
Well I don't have ASSYST in my UK registered 4 cylinder so go 'by the book' and change the oil annually. I actually cover less than 6,000 miles per annum so MB classes this as 'Arduous' and recommends the annual change.

In 9 years of ownership I have now covered 21,000 miles and changed the oil 9 times. So an average OCI of 2,300 miles! The lowest has been less than 2,000 and the highest exactly 5,000 so a bit of spread.

My theory is 8.5 litres of oil and a filter is hopefully cheap insurance as against replacing the engine if I didn't bother!

I'm going to stick with my annual oil changes as long as I keep my Sprinter :thumbup:

Keith.
 
2

220629

Well-known member
Cases alter circumstances. I do have ASSYST and the associated OCI history for my typical service to apply to my 2006. Based upon the 2004 history I consider a 12,000 mile OCI conservative for my particular situation.

Cheyenne said:
... I actually cover less than 6,000 miles per annum so MB classes this as 'Arduous' and recommends the annual change.
...
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My oil changes work out to once per year, but with 14,000 miles triggered by ASSYST. Absent any computer monitoring a 1 year OCI seems reasonable.

Cheyenne said:
... My theory is 8.5 litres of oil and a filter is hopefully cheap insurance as against replacing the engine if I didn't bother!

I'm going to stick with my annual oil changes as long as I keep my Sprinter :thumbup:

Keith.
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to convert anyone. This thread just provides a bit of ASSYST history/information.

Aqua Puttana said:
...


"ASSYST" makes it possible for the first time for Mercedes>
Benz to have service intervals of up to 40,000 km or 2 years
(min. 15,000 km or 1 year). The system takes into account
individually the driving style of the customer by evaluating
engine speed, engine temperature, engine load and time. The timing
of the service required is calculated
and the due date is displayed to the customer in the instrument cluster.

********
FWIW. vic
Click to expand...
On a number of occasions after adding a quart of oil I have had the ASSYST give 500 more miles to the countdown. That convinces me that the oil quality monitor technology works and is not just a countdown.

It appears that by actually monitoring the vehicle service and oil quality the OCI might be extended to 2 years by ASSYST prompts. Or maybe it would notice the "Arduous service" and trigger before 2 years. :idunno:

Perhaps some low mile per year owners that use ASSYST will chime in. Or maybe no other members are willing to trust this new-fangled voodoo technology. (It is actually 30 years old now - 1997.) :rolleyes:

:cheers: vic
 
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GaryJ

GaryJ

Here since 2006
Having purchased an 06 in 2010 with ASSYST and only 2300 miles on it might serve as a reference point. The previous owner purchased the van for an intended use that never came to fruition, but had changed the oil and filter every year per the book. After I bought it a health issue and the coversion process pretty much kept if off the road for over a year. The ASSYST never gave me a time notification. Although I change the oil at a little over 10K miles the ASSYST always tells me I can go to 13 or 14K miles.

Gary
 
S

SprintageWein

Member
Is there science supporting a need to change oil by age rather than by actual use? I've only put 10k miles on my 06 van since buying it three years ago, ASSYST still says 3700 miles to go since my initial oil change.
 
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smiller

2008 View J (2007 NCV3 3500)
SprintageWein said:
Is there science supporting a need to change oil by age rather than by actual use? I've only put 10k miles on my 06 van since buying it three years ago, ASSYST still says 3700 miles to go since my initial oil change.
Click to expand...
Most manufacturers specify some boilerplate time-based change interval, but if you'd rather not be that simplistic then you can apply some general guidelines. Much depends on the usage pattern, meaning have those 10k miles been put on as a series of very short trips (hard on oil life) or just a few long, interstate-based trips? If the 10k miles consist of driving two miles to work each day then it's probably past time to change it, but if they represent a few long trips (such as an RV might be used) then the oil may be fine. IOW, time is one consideration, but there are others that are equally if not more important but usually skipped over in boilerplate recommendations because they want to fit the information into a few sentences, not a few pages.

One way to be sure is an oil analysis, but by the time you do that you've already spent half of what it would cost to just change it, so not always cost effective. Personally at 10k miles and three years you are probably far enough into the change interval that I would go ahead and change it, but there are many who would say that one should replace oil that is one or two years old and may have only a few thousand miles on it over just a few long trips simply because 'the manual says so', when in reality the oil would come back from an analysis as nearly new.

.
 
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Deleted member 50714

Guest
When I was working...er... killing time and screwing the state of Commiefornia, the ODO said my house was 9/10 of a mile from work parking lot. Needless to say my Toyota Tacoma barely reached operating temperature and changed the oil every January and June.
 
autostaretx

autostaretx

Erratic Member
One source of oil (and additives) breakdown is water collected from condensation from the air in the engine block.

Frequent driving tends to boil it off, but just sitting for a year lets acids form and otherwise lower the oil's "quality".

That's the "old fart's" commonly accepted reason for time-based oil changing.

The MB oil sensor is effectively measuring the acid content (since the disassociated ions carry electricity)

--dick
 
2

220629

Well-known member
Do you use full synthetic diesel oil? It yes, read my comment below. If no... do what you think is best.

SprintageWein said:
... ASSYST still says 3700 miles to go since my initial oil change.
Click to expand...
Personally I would trust the ASSYST prompts. Refer back to my post #9. Along with other data ASSYST does actually monitor and apply engine oil parameters.

But...
As I said in another recent thread, 3 years would probably trigger an oil change for me just based upon time alone. Extending beyond 3 years puts an owner in an area of diminishing returns as to payback. 3 year old oil doesn't owe you nothin'.

:2cents: vic
 
S

smiller

2008 View J (2007 NCV3 3500)
Moisture doesn't condense into the oil if temperature is in a constant (or slowly changing, as in the course of a day) state, only rapid changes such as after starting and cooldown. Absent such conditions, no condensation. Same for acid formation as that occurs mostly as a result of blowby gas contamination, made worse by frequent cold starts. But if the engine isn't run (or the number of cold start cycles relative to total mileage is low) then there will be little acids formation as well. Modern engine oil doesn't 'go bad' by just sitting there.

Manufacturers usually recommend a time-based oil change interval but that is based on the generic assumption that low miles over a long period of time is a result of short trips (which are indeed hard on oil life.) But if the conditions are more favorable then oil life may not be severely impacted simply as a result of time. Again, there is a big difference (in terms of oil contamination) in a vehicle with two year-old oil that has 2,000 miles on it from two 1,000-mile trips and 2,000 miles on it from 1000 two-mile trips. There may or may not be a reason to change the oil after a certain period of time but it is based on operating conditions, not some some ink on a printed page.
 
owner

owner

Oz '03 316CDI LWB ex-Ambo Patient Transport
Its not just the oil, its the filter. Paper filters will break down after a while. I know MB themselves found this when they first went to ASSYST on the M-Class petrol engines. The oil was fine for 2 years but the paper filters were not. Thats why they went to fleece filters on the petrol engines.
 
D

DRTDEVL

Active member
Aqua Puttana said:
Yep.

I worked with some characters over the years.

One guy didn't change his oil at all. He just topped it off when he occasionally changed the oil filter... maybe based upon the phase of the moon. He thought we were crazy to change engine oil regularly. Last I knew his Dodge pickup was 9 years old. It probably went longer.

Another guy changed his oil every 1000 miles. "If 3000 miles is good, 1000 miles is even better." No change and Thousand miler used to have some heated discussions.

The kicker with the thousand miler? A co-worker worked a deal to get the 1000 mile OCI drained oil. He used that used oil for maintenance changes on his car and his wife's car. He never needed to buy oil.

:cheers: vic
Click to expand...
I'm not as bad as no-changer, but his philosophy isn't too far off the mark.

I change my oil filter every 5,000 miles. I change the oil every 20,000. I did this with the Ford van I used prior to the Sprinter as well. When the van left my hands at 302,000 miles, it would still start every time, had no blow-by or misfires. If you looked into the oil fill at the inside of the head, you could see everything was still pretty spotless inside.

On the Ford van, I was using nothing but the factory Motorcraft filters. I used 5w20 Mobil1 or Amsoil for the changes, and added a quart when changing the filter every 5k.

For the Sprinter, I use 5w40 Mobil1 European Car Formula and whatever filter I happen to have on the shelf (I buy them in bulk). Right now, it happens to be "Premium Guard". Not exactly name-brand, but the ones made in Korea seem to have decent construction. Before I bought in bulk, I was using K&N... pricey, but it was available locally, off the shelf. The Sprinter now has over 370,000 miles on it. Everything else seems to have failed along the way, but not the engine itself.

My woman's Passat uses the same oil as the Sprinter, and a Mann filter. Oil comes out cleaner than expected... I change that once or twice per year, depending on its usage.
 
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