Ford Marketing and Future Models

220629

Well-known member
Old news. Ford is getting out of the traditional passenger car (sedan models) business. From what I read that doesn't include SUV's which have really been the new family vehicle of choice for some time now.


What's behind Ford's big move?
And will Ford's crossover strategy work?

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/whats-behind-fords-big-move#ixzz5JLlAofIk

Ford is basically giving up on US car business, and GM is not far behind

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/26/for...us-car-business-and-gm-is-not-far-behind.html

One thing I will state about Ford is that they are very clever at gauging market conditions and introducing products at JUST the right time!
...
So was Ford genius for not jumping into the North American Euro style van business as early as MB and Chrysler? The Detroit iron Ford van did have a good run. Transit sales seem strong.

:cheers: vic
 

surlyoldbill

Well-known member
Vic, I recall the advent of the Transit was met with MUCH moaning and groaning by people who did not like change in any form; aka the American public, and domestic vehicle buyers in particular. Many are STILL lamenting not being able to buy a van that looks straight out of 1975 in the near future. I think Ford was probably clever on their Transit release, too. The people that bought the T1N Sprinters when they became available were largely not domestic vehicle devotees, they were the people who looked at European cars first, and they are a smaller segment of the vehicle buyers in the USA. They tripped over each other to get a new Sprinter, and when the initial demand was met, sales declined a bit; or at least people willing to pay MSRP and above declined. The macro example was when the Sprinter 4x4 became available: people plopped down thousands of dollars in deposits almost a YEAR before any would be available to drive off the lot, and when the few that weren't spoken for arrived dealers were selling them for $10k+ more than sticker. Now you can actually get a slight discount off sticker when buying one off the lot because initial demand has been met.

So, I think Ford is probably being clever again. If people aren't buying sedans much anymore, why offer 4-5 models of sedan?!
 

HarryN

Well-known member
My perception is that historically, the full size vans were targeted at the high volume / low end contractor market and similar.

The price point of a standard GM or Ford full size van has historically been lower than a person might expect compared to other vehicles. Part of this was achieved by very long production runs and simplicity - for better or worse.

From a brand management perspective, they had to be very careful to make sure that a GM suburban didn't have to compete with a GM utility van for the same customer, or profit margins would crash. Same with Ford vehicles.

There has always been demand for euro style vans (that you could stand inside of) and this was partially met with conversion products, but obviously not so perfectly.

Chrysler / MB didn't have this brand management separation problem, so the sprinter imports helped shift the market in two ways:
- It made vans more expensive so that the margins were similar to high end SUVs
- It proved that the market was viable and obviously Ford / GM don't like to loose market share - especially in light trucks.

As far as sedans - we have some but frankly I don't know why. We drive relatively short distances in them but long distance drives are always done in a van or SUV. It kind of blows the argument for gas mileage, but I will admit - the mileage of even common sedans is amazing - just too small really.

Perhaps the whole shift is due to EPA fuel efficiency demands. We used to use big station wagons to have enough space. Those were eliminated to meet EPA / CARB. Now we have to buy vans and SUVs to have equivalent space to the old stations wagons for family use.
 
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4wheeldog

2018 144" Tall Revel
I learned to drive in a '58 Country Sedan, White over yellow, 292 V8, 3 on the tree w/overdrive.
It was the "Family car" for about a dozen years.
I learned a lot about mechanicals, replacing a clutch and the timing chain, which slipped a couple of teeth at 80k, typical of Fords of that period.
I remember the car fondly, though it certainly was less reliable than any car I have owned since.
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
Waaaay back when... there was the VW Station Wagon (otherwise known as the VW Bus).

Then Ford introduced the Econoline Van.

Fast forward a lot ...

In 2004 I was looking for something about a foot taller, and at least a foot longer, than my Nissan Stanza minivan.
A DHL Sprinter crossed my path.
My wife and i spent the next 6 months shopping new and used dealerships trying to *not* buy a Sprinter.
Nothing else on the US market came anywhere *near* being such a "right size" as the Sprinter.

If i was trying to find "the answer" *today* ... i'd be in real trouble.
Other than a used 118" Sprinter, the US market doesn't have what we'd be looking for.

--dick (whose Sprinter gets as good, if not better, mileage than his Kia Rondo "wagon")
(Dick's sequence of cars: 1965 Plymouth Valiant, 1963 VW Squareback ($300 in 1973), 1966 VW Squareback ($300 in 1979?), 1972 VW Rabbit ($1200 in 1984), 1985 Nissan Stanza ($2500 in 1988)(eventually we had two: one for each of us), 2005 Sprinter ($34k new), 2010 Kia Rondo ($16k new))
 
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D

Deleted member 50714

Guest
An autonomous Sprinter would be a dream come true. Lots to explore here in so-cal but traffic congestion makes it miserable.

Ahhh, I can see myself now, strapped in the back in the best La-Z-Boy Strato-lounger money can buy, massaging my gluteus maximus while swilling Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Voice command the Sprinter to desired location and it's kick back Jack!!! Or, pre-programed route across America using two-lane highways as Glasseye suggests. Or honky-tonking on Sunset Blvd not burdened with parking.
 
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lindenengineering

Well-known member
Guys
One of the biggest reasons and the trend going forward is to attract a whole new buying public called Millenniums,

This potential customer base will be looking for something quite different than what we older baby boomer generation consider to be the latest and greatest !

I have seen reports that the big three will soon be contracting design and CKD/PKD construction out the selected sub contractors, Tesla comes to mind as being a strong contender & BWD of China who are forging ahead with electric cars.
With this will come autonomous operation, total connectivity, and nothing like we currently have will be acceptable to this new generation of car buyers if that is, they can get out of the financial burdens of student loans they are currently saddled with.

I expect to see/hear the expression "this is not your Granddad's old Mercedes or Porsche Cayenne " !
If I live long enough !
Dennis
 
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Deleted member 50714

Guest
Guys
One of the biggest reasons and the trend going forward is to attract a whole new buying public called Millenniums,

This potential customer base will be looking for something quite different than what we older baby boomer generation consider to be the latest and greatest !

I have seen reports that the big three will soon be contracting design and CKD/PKD construction out the selected sub contractors, Tesla comes to mind as being a strong contender & BWD of China who are forging ahead with electric cars.
With this will come autonomous operation, total connectivity, and nothing like we currently have will be acceptable to this new generation of car buyers if that is, they can get out of the financial burdens of student loans they are currently saddled with.

I expect to see/hear the expression "this is not your Granddad's old Mercedes or Porsche Cayenne " !
If I live long enough !
Dennis
Good grief, millennial's, humanity is doomed. It's man buns and skinny pants gone wild. Yes, make cars so millennial's only have to put their ass in. Excellent!

I read a majority of millennial's would prefer ridesharing, like Uber and Lyft, over car ownership. Automobile transportation is grotesquely inefficient in contrast to other modes.

I predict declining sales for pick-up trucks as millennials mature. The venerable pick-up truck, indigenous to North America, an enduring symbol and extension of masculinity, sexual virility and prowless will succumb to leftist, group thinking hipster fad of neutral gender identity.
 
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OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
Guys
One of the biggest reasons and the trend going forward is to attract a whole new buying public called Millenniums,

This potential customer base will be looking for something quite different than what we older baby boomer generation consider to be the latest and greatest !

I have seen reports that the big three will soon be contracting design and CKD/PKD construction out the selected sub contractors, Tesla comes to mind as being a strong contender & BWD of China who are forging ahead with electric cars.
With this will come autonomous operation, total connectivity, and nothing like we currently have will be acceptable to this new generation of car buyers if that is, they can get out of the financial burdens of student loans they are currently saddled with.

I expect to see/hear the expression "this is not your Granddad's old Mercedes or Porsche Cayenne " !
If I live long enough !
Dennis
Millennials. :shifty:




.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Tesla comes to mind as being a strong contender
Believe Tesla will have major difficulties because established car manufacturers soon will flood the market with electric cars. They have the manufacturing ability/capacity that Tesla does not have. Tesla would have been better off competing in a niche market.

Elon Musk is brilliant but has too many projects he is involved with. I am amazed at the number of stock buyers who have bought into his spiel.

Afraid that Tesla will end up just like Nicola Tesla. Brilliant at the beginning but penniless at the end.
 
D

Deleted member 50714

Guest
Believe Tesla will have major difficulties because established car manufacturers soon will flood the market with electric cars. They have the manufacturing ability/capacity that Tesla does not have. Tesla would have been better off competing in a niche market.

Elon Musk is brilliant but has too many projects he is involved with. I am amazed at the number of stock buyers who have bought into his spiel.

Afraid that Tesla will end up just like Nicola Tesla. Brilliant at the beginning but penniless at the end.

Musk should have marketed an all electric car for under $20,000 for the masses as opposed to coastal elites. Most people never utilize all the expensive and superfluous newfangled stuff on their cars.
 

HarryN

Well-known member
Musk should have marketed an all electric car for under $20,000 for the masses as opposed to coastal elites. Most people never utilize all the expensive and superfluous newfangled stuff on their cars.
Bob, it is very hard to bring a new product / company to market, but especially to economy buyers. The Chevy volt is an example of a car that is a really under rated vehicle in terms of capability and is at a reasonable price point. I admit that it lacks aesthetics.

In most cases, the more economically oriented auto market can be served with used vehicles vs targeting ultra low margins.

A case in point - the APUs that I build and sell are fairly low margin products, but I might as well price them at 2x because I rarely have economy oriented buyers purchase them.
 
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Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Musk should have marketed an all electric car for under $20,000 for the masses as opposed to coastal elites. Most people never utilize all the expensive and superfluous newfangled stuff on their cars.
Disagree. Tesla does not have the manufacturing experience that major car manufacturers have or the available factories or dealer support facilities.

I drove a Tesla Model S and was very impressed with how it drove and the style. So my comments have nothing to do with the car design.
 
D

Deleted member 50714

Guest
Bob, it is very hard to bring a new product / company to market, but especially to economy buyers. The Chevy volt is an example of a car that is a really under rated vehicle in terms of capability and is at a reasonable price point. I admit that it lacks aesthetics.

In most cases, the more economically oriented auto market can be served with used vehicles vs targeting ultra low margins.
I totally agree it would certainly be a challenge if not impossible to produce an all electric vehicle at the point I described but it certainly would have mass appeal like Ford and VW.
 

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