Well I bought the Thinsulate after all. It is in the queue to be done. Funny, thinking back to my VW bus days.... it also pays to own some good old fashioned warm clothing and a sleeping bag if need be. I have been over thinking most of this project. I'm considering lizardskin too, but feel like it is snake oil, but that's another thread all together I think.
Best Insulation Materials?! Help!
- Thread starter amersereau
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- build out insulation
Probably one of the best things said on this thread. I am just starting my van project and have been reviewing the insulation posts. While I have never built a van, I have built many buildings and homes. It seems to me that there is a LOT being done for insulation that will have very marginal, if any real benefit.
I was considering Lizard Skin, and I just pulled the trigger on it. What I see that it does, and has quite a few anecdotes to back it up, is reduce the conduction of the sheet metal. That is all it can really do at that thickness. If it coats the surface of the sheet metal, and isn't a very good conductor, then it reduces the rate of radiation into the van as well as the heat conducted to the insulation/air that comes into contact with it.
I tentatively plan on doing some experiments with some of the sheet metal that I cut out for the fans. We'll see how it goes.
Midwestdrifter
Engineer In Residence
Lizard skin is way more conductive then open or closed cell foam. You would be more effective insulating if you replaced the lizard skin with foam bonded directly to the sheet metal. Or just insulate normally using a quality insulation material. LS is snake oil! If it wasn't they would publish actual tests, R values emissivity numbers etc. This information is available for every other legitimate insulation material.
If you insist on using a lizard skin like material, you can make your own using ceramic microballoons and latex house paint. For a fraction the cost.
If you insist on using a lizard skin like material, you can make your own using ceramic microballoons and latex house paint. For a fraction the cost.
Graphite Dave
Dave Orton
That is what I did. Very easy to apply and does add more paint to the steel surface for more rust protection. Some have said it is also snake oil. Did apply the ceramic sphere paint to 1/2 of the van "forehead" and aimed van toward the sun. Did a very scientific test with my fingers. The side with the ceramic paint was not as hot as the side without. So believe it does some good.
Im looking at these ceramic microspheres to add to the paint for inside walls. I wonder if elastomeric paint would work better than latex?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AC5WGQI/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A3EKAWO1JJ0CGJ&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AC5WGQI/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A3EKAWO1JJ0CGJ&psc=1
Midwestdrifter
Engineer In Residence
That's a lot of effort for less gain than 1/8" of closed cell foam...
According to this* you can get 50mm & 100mm but I haven't checked with the manufacturer [SupaSoft].
Yea this all gets a bit complicated (at least to me) but SupaSoft (AKA shredded plastic bottles) claims a Thermal Conductivity: 0.040 Wm-1K-1** That's comparable to rockwool type products (Knauf quote 0.035***). SupaSoft basically absorbs zero water from the air** - rockwool quotes less than 1KG - [WATER ABSORPTION WP (BS EN 29767) <1 KG/M² *] which seems a lot. Also, given a choice between using SupaSoft (AKA shredded plastic bottles) and glass wool - I'd go for the shredded plastic drinks bottles!
Basically there doesn't seem to be a lot of easy options re insulation [other than foam being preferred - see @Graphite Dave use of foam sheets - attractive if I could source it & at a reasonable price] but in terms of "fibre" materials a very brief looks suggests SupaSoft is better than glasss wool/rock wool. [EDIT the reason I think Dave's approach i.e. of using foam, is best, is that I asked Knauf**** and they replied that they didn't recommend rockwool i.e. due to the risk of interstitial condensation - I assume that interstitial condensation might also be an issue with SupaSoft - but foam sheets wouldn't have any exchangeable air/moisture].
*https://climbingvan.co.uk/product/supasoft-insulation-thermafleece-polyester-recycled-bottle-wool/
**https://www.supasoftinsulation.com/supasoft-specifications/
***
Glass mineral wool insulation λ 0.034 - 0.035 W/mK - Knauf
https://www.knauf.co.uk › isolator-test-reports › k...
27 Oct 2019 — The declared unit is 1m2 at 100mm thickness. The applicable thermal conductivity is λ 0.034 - 0.035 W/mK. Indicator values are declared for ..
****
Knauf:
"Mineral wool insulation would not be ideal in the proposed application, due to the risk of interstitial condensation.
From our perspective a more suitable product would be a spray foam insulation. A product which would fill all voids which would help remove the risk of condensation.
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