New Thor Chateau Citation - issues

I don't "think" I need a support group! At least not yet. I have a pretty tough skin.

I will stop posting issues on my RV. Someone around my house thinks I am a bit hard headed and will not let an issue drop. She maybe right!!

I just hate like heck to watch a good company go down the drain for issues that could so easily be fixed.

Thor does have an excellent service group.

We really do like this RV. Even with ALLLL of the warts!!!

The actual RV is exactly what we wanted.

It would have been so easy to produce the RV with none of these issues. That's what has me so disgusted.

Update on Citation - NO issues

We have just finished up a 38 day, 8 state, 2 province trip in our 2014 Thor Citation, 24SA.

Az to Nevada, California, Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, Alberta, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming and Utah. A great trip.

6625 total miles.
15.32 MPG avg.
17.5 – 17.9 MPG when traveling 35 – 45 MPH in places like Yellowstone.
14.3 MPG for one 800 mile stretch when driving 70 MPH on the interstate, with a head wind, as we were trying to get out of the smoke created by all of the forest fires in the north western states.

$2.96 average price per gallon. (Continued to top off fuel most of the time when tank was nearing half full.) Only had to put 5% bio diesel in twice – and did not fill up at those stops.

Mostly Shell, Chevron and Conoco diesel used on this trip.

No issues with the Sprinter. It worked great.

Only issue was a self-created issue that I will not go into because of my dumb mistake. But, Thor Service and Johnnie Walker RV in Las Vegas (no, not the drink) were a great help working this issue.

Must have had over 50 people ask about our RV. Folks at camp grounds, service stations, laundromat, etc. We even had one lady hop down from a tour bus to ask about the RV.

Nice looking RV! It looks almost identical to my 2012 24 ft Fleetwood TIOGA DSL. And its DYI Issues are similar. When I bought mine 2-years ago...it had less than 12,000 miles on it...and it was spotlessly clean inside. The original owner had travelled one way from Quebec to Alberta in it... then sold it. When I took it home to British Columbia, I realized why it was so clean. First of all, you couldn't empty your grey or black water tanks! Fleetwood had miss-matched the sewer hose connection location AGH ! Secondly, the kitchen and bathroom sinks were not caulked... and would not hold water...for long. (and you couldn't dump it anyway) As a result, the original owner didn't use the bathroom, shower, or either of the 2 sinks. And he never used the propane stove, or the convection oven... even the kitchen cupboards looked unused. The bed was used however. Evidently, the original owner was French... and threw away ALL of the manuals and Data Sheets that were written in English. This proved to be helpful. I was forced to research everything that concerned the Chassis and the Coach. i.e. where the fuses were hidden...I also found,like you, numerous issues that needed attention. But nothing that was outrageous. Actually its pretty solid considering it is a self-propelled house. The good news is there isn't much that his Forum cannot help you with. Enjoy the challenge!

Well, I guess its a bit reassuring that my rv is not the only one with so many issues. Actually, I hate that anyone has to go through the pain and agony of buying a high dollar machine and then have to rebuild it.

I can sure understand why there are so many low mileage and lightly used rvs for sale. Not many folks put up with such poor quality manufacturing. But for us guys that like fixing things, it's just another challenge.

Slide Problem - self imposed

As mentioned on an earlier post, I did something dumb before we left on our last long RV trip. Before the trip, I was checking all of the gaskets and screws around the RV slide.

Several screws were loose and I did find a tear in the upper/rear rubber gasket. (From inside the RV, that would be the upper-left hand side of the slide.)

While working with that gasket, I removed a screw that I found BEHIND the gasket. It appeared to be sheared off – it was about ½” long. Since I had found several sheared off screws on the RV, I replaced that screw with a ¾” screw. BAD MOVE!!!!!!!

That screw is the one that holds the slide motor in place. The ¾” screw hit one of the motor’s windings and killed the motor – only after the slide closed properly, ONCE.

I did not find that the motor was dead until we were already at a camp ground in Las Vegas.

Next morning, I took the RV to Johnnie Walker RV and explained that I had changed the screw. They did not have time to fix the slide, but did take the time to check and confirm that the motor was dead.

The service manager said to change the motor out, the metal strip on the outside of the RV would need to have the rivets drilled out to get to the motor. UGGGH

Called Thor Customer Support and told them about my dumb mistake. Thor Service explained that the motor could be changed out from inside the RV, without removing the riveted strip. Thor Service then sent a motor to me at no charge. YAHOOOO

We completed our 6K mile trip without using the slide – figured I had better wait until I got home to do the motor installation.

Lippert Schwintek In-Wall Slide-Out System – Motor Replacement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DviEbWT3lUo

If I had screwed up the motor on the right hand side of the slide, replacing the motor would have been easy.

BUT, when the left hand motor is screwed up on a 24SA, there’s only about a 4” gap between the slide and the closet AND the motor is about 20” from the front of the closet. There’s even less distance between the top of the slide and the ceiling – meaning all of the work had to be done from the front of the slide, using only one arm/hand reaching in to grip everything. UGGGGGHHHHH

Motor Removal:
Move slide out about 6” manually to remove that DARNED ¾” screw. Manually move the slide back in so that one arm can get between the slide and the closet.

Disconnect the motor wiring. Remove the metal cover that holds the gasket in place. Pull back gasket about 10”. Pull the motor up about 1” and then slide the motor out.

Now the smart thing to do would be to check the angle of the “D” motor shaft on the new motor and make sure it’s at the same angle as the motor that was just removed. If so, the new motor should pop right back in.

The dumb thing to do is pull the motor/shaft coupler out and inspect it. That darned little coupler doesn’t go in nearly as easy as it comes out.

After spending many hours pushing, tugging, swearing a bit and sweating a lot, the coupler slid right back in place.

But of course the coupler is now at a slightly different angle, so the motor shaft has to be rotated a bit to align the “D” with the coupler and the 4 exposed screws at the bottom of the motor.

After reinstalling the metal plate and gasket and hooking up the wiring, you then need to reset the slide synchronization.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjmCiI5-cv4

FYI – Slide Maintenance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TriNbci200&list=PLJyvopP1dKlAVv19BabFGEvhA23zFTbqa

Youtube can sure be your friend - sometimes I need to check youtube BEFORE doing something wrong.

Slide fix continued

Tough getting that D shaft inserted into the coupler and at the same time, getting the anchor screws aligned properly with the holes in the mounting bracket.

When the motor is in place, the slide needs to be extended about 6" and a 1/2" screw needs to be installed from the outside to hold the motor in place. DON'T USE A 3/4" SCREW.

Skylight problem - and solution

When we purchased our RV, we noticed the skylight would “click” several times during closing. On our last trip, the skylight would not open without a manual assist. What is wrong?

Pulled the covers and checked electric motor and gear box. All appeared to be in good working order.

Removed the motor and gear box and inspected the gears inside the box. Still, everything looked to be in good working order.

Then I checked the spur gear that makes contact to the flexible “springs” that form a worm gear. AHAAA, the spur gear shows to be worn.

The popping noise must have been the “springs” (worm) slipping over the spur gear, wearing down the spur gear teeth. See pics.

Thanks to Dometic Support for shipping the gear to me at no charge. (Description: Gear, MIDI-HEKI Crank/Elec, Part number: GD1031)


Easy fix, once I figured out what was wrong.


As a first time RV’er, I had assumed the clicking noise that we were hearing was normal. WRONG.

The root cause for the problem was the skylight “stop switch” not being correctly set.

With a slight adjustment, the skylight now closes quietly and locks into place without the “clicking” noise.

While I had the skylight fixtures removed, I added Styrofoam all around the AC ducts that go to the RV’s front air conditioner registers. MAYBE this will help improve on the cooling at the front AC registers. See pic.

Pics: Skylight lower cover, motor, gear box, open gear box, worm gear, spur gear, stop switch/switch adjustment, insulation added around skylight.

Skylight fix continued

"Spring Like" worm gear (spur gear removed)
New Spur Gear - GD1031
Stop Switch - top view
Stop Switch adjustment - before and after adjustment

Added insulation (Styrofoam) around front AC ducts.

Kwikee Steps

I have read on the Sprinter Forum that some RV’ers are having trouble with their Kwikee Step’s clevis bolt coming lose causing the bracket to bend. Since we had our older Lippert steps replaced with the newer Lippert Kwikee steps back in May, I checked the clevis bolt and cotter key on our new steps. No issues noted – new steps work great. See pic.


Also while I was checking the Kwikee steps, I noted that Richards RV Service Center in Greer S.C. installed the new steps using the same “double nuts” that I had installed last year when I found the steps about to fall off of the RV.

Maybe a case of belt and suspenders!!! See pic.

Ref Mud Flap

I am at the RV dealer. My mud flap is almost completely worn away. I hope it has not damaged my tire. I will see what they do for me. I will try and upload a picture.

I guess I can not do this from my iPad.

I am pretty sure the mud flap did not damage my tires.
Be sure and secure your new flaps to the storage bins in front of or behind the flaps. I just drilled a hole in the bin and placed a stove bolt through the mud flap into the bin. Works like a charm. One would think Thor would do that rather than having EVERY customer complain about mud flaps.

It has been a while since I have given any updates on our Thor 24SA.

We have been on several trips since the last update. Still averaging overall of about 15.1 mpg for a total of just over 27K miles.

On one "short" trip to LA in January (to see our 4 year old grand daughter), we had 50-60 mph head winds and cross winds for about 250 miles. Only made 13.6 mpg for that portion of the trip.
We had so much dust in the engine compartment, that I decided I had better change the engine air filter and the cab filter. Lots of dirt in both filters - about a hand full. BUT, there was not a spec of dust on the output side (engine or cab side) of the filters. Mercedes does a great job with their filtering system.

On the next several trips (S.E. AZ - 1 week trip, San Diego to Yosemite - 5 week trip, OK to southern CO - 4 week trip) we had some pretty steep grades to go up and down. 16% grade getting to Laguna Seca camp ground, 13% grades nearing Wofford Heights/Isabella Lake CA, many 6% and 7% grades for long distances in AZ, Wolf Creek Pass, CO etc. The brakes got pretty hot a couple of times. Had the brakes checked last week at Mercedes of Chandler. Brakes still have about 75% of pads left.

The 3.0 L Mercedes engine handled these grades with no problem.

We are really enjoying our RV. It has sure been a rough road finding and fixing the many issues with this RV. I sure would be better prepared to know what to look for if we ever buy another RV.

At this time, I would say that 95% of the issues with our RV have been poor workmanship and 5% of the issues are material related.

Again, the Thor Service team has been great. We just should not have had this many issues.

Next update will be my latest and hopefully the last major issue that I have fixed.

From the very first day we purchased our RV, the plumbing sounded like someone is running a jack hammer inside the RV when the water pump was on.
Occasionally when we parked the RV just right, the sound was almost bearable. That made me think that the PEX lines must be laying against a wall causing that terrible thumping sound.

I don't think I have mentioned it before, but I HATE PLUMBING!!! So the last thing I wanted to do was to break into the PEX water lines.

I tried several things to try to quieten that terrible noise:
I placed soft foam all around the pump. No help.
I placed foam insulation tubes around as many of the PEX lines as I could reach. No help.
I used "Great Stuff" (low expansion) foam in areas that I could reach. No help.
I even drilled small holes in the back of the shower wall to shoot the Great Stuff in to that cavity. That helped a bit but was not a fix. This is where I found that the wall of the shower is not secured to the thin material behind the shower. Sometimes there is a small gap, sometimes the shower wall is touching that backing - depending on how the RV is sitting. AhhhHaaa.
The shower wall is actually acting like a speaker which seems to amplify the sound coming from the PEX lines.
So, adding a few more plastic plugs along with the Great Stuff, the noise quietened down maybe 10%.

After consulting with one of the RV experts on this Forum, I decided it was time to address the pump issue head on. I thought about just having the pump replaced. But, the 4 chambered ARTIS pump seems like it should be as quiet as the other pumps advertised.

So, I pulled up the ARTIS water pump specifications.

STEP #1 - Use flexible hose (preferable braided or reinforced) to reduce the vibration through the plumbing system. AhhhHaaaa. Seems someone missed "STEP #1" at the factory.

Note picture showing pump with PEX lines hooked directly to it. Also note that the input filter is turned directly toward the fresh water tank. Pretty much makes checking that filter a real chore.

Soooo:

I purchased 7' of 120 PSI flexible hose and some fittings and started in. I decided to use 3 1/2 ft of hose at the input and at the output. This allowed me to make two coils.

I removed the filter and it's fixtures. Then rotated the pump filter 90 degrees - which allowed me to hook one end of the flexible hose to the bottom of the filter - pointing toward the inside of the RV. I placed a 90 degree elbow at the input of the pump and was able to hook the other end of the flexible hose to that elbow.

I loosened the output PEX line and moved it to the side. I was then able to hook up the flexible hose directly to the pump output, and with two coils, hooked the other end directly to the PEX output line/fixture.

No factory installed PEX lines had to be cut.

I placed soft foam between the coils of the flexible lines to quieten down the squeaks when the flex lines touch.

Now the water lines sound like a quiet knock with a small rubber mallet. We can still hear the motor when it's running. But at least 90% quieter than before.

As the Forum expert said, "it looks like a snakes nest, but if it works, no problem."

One little issue came up while we were in Colorado. The fresh water tank was near empty. I filled the tank with fresh COLD Colorado water. When the water pump was turned on, the pounding was back!

That night, I had one of those AhhhhHaaaa moments. The cold water was making the flexible hoses about as stiff as the PEX lines. After a few hours, the water warmed up a bit and the loud pounding went away.

Oh, and I have no leaks.

One more item that might be of interest to some of the forum readers.

We did purchase a Progressive Industries EMS-PT30C, Portable, 30 A Surge Protector to protect our RV's electrical system.

While camping at the Fool Hollow State Park campground I decided to check the various electrical appliances' current draw through the surge protector.
The numbers below are really rough because the surge protector only has whole number current and voltage reading capability. It appears that if there is any current draw, the reading will show at least 1 full amp.

I did not check the voltage readings at the surge protector for every current reading - so the actual power consumption WILL be off a bit.

This chart was pretty much put together to give us a rough reference of what we can and cannot use while hooked to a 30 amp source or while using the generator.

OkieNAz said:

I am pretty sure the mud flap did not damage my tires.
Be sure and secure your new flaps to the storage bins in front of or behind the flaps. I just drilled a hole in the bin and placed a stove bolt through the mud flap into the bin. Works like a charm. One would think Thor would do that rather than having EVERY customer complain about mud flaps.

Click to expand...

As you mention, the mudflap issue is wide spread. It is baffling that Thor does not correct this. I have done the same thing you mention and it has worked well. The warranty dealer I took it to originally tried to glue the mudflap to the storage compartment (no bolts or metal brackets - see black ribs on left side of the attached picture which is silicone caulk used to glue the previous mudflap on) and that lasted about 5 miles before the 65 mph wind blew it off on the way home. It is totally crazy what RV techs and manufacturers try to do. Another warranty dealer installed the second mudflap using self tapping screws. This held the mudflap well but they did not notice that the screw went through the metal and almost penetrated the diesel generator fuel line which was on the back side of the metal they drilled through. Lesson: Always check everything a dealer does when you get it back.

Did you take the wood panel out from under the Bathroom sink? It will give you some more room as well, just like the cabinet under the Kitchen sink. Also take the access panel off of the front of the shower basin and make sure the P trap nuts are tight. In ours they were not and we were getting some leakage.

Re: New Thor Chateau Citation - ASR/BAS fault indicator light

We just finished up another 4900 mile, two month trip. Having family scattered from California to South Carolina sure can add miles to an RV.

Just turned over 32500 miles. Much of this trip was on interstates. About 14 MPG when running 70-75 mph.

On the last 300 mile leg of the trip, the ASR/BAS yellow warning light and TRACTION light came on. Manuel states power will be reduced and cruse control will not function. Dang sure right about that. Had to manually down shift going up hills. We were even getting passed by F350 Ford RV's

Took the RV to Chandler Mercedes today. The brake peddle switch was replaced - now it runs like a Sprinter ought to. Bill S. at Chandler Mercedes is a great service guy.

Another small issue: I had been warned to check the amber light lenses over the cab. I checked and found two amber lenses cracked with water droplets forming inside. (I had replaced these lenses several months ago.) Don't remember hitting any limbs but I sure must have hit something. Be sure and check those plastic lenses for cracks. You could possibly get water inside your RV from those cracks.

While on top of the RV, I checked the sealant on the front and back seams. Found a few spots that needed to be resealed. I had read about the recommendations to check the seals annually. That sure seams to be a "must do".

Still loving our RV, now!!!!

We now have just over 46K miles on our THOR Citation, 24SA, with most of these miles coming since retiring three years ago.

We have now spent 358 nights in our RV in just a little over three years.

We have encountered a few more issues. ONE of the major issues is related to the floor. The floor started becoming “soft” fairly soon after the purchase. The first place we noticed that “softness” occurring was right where I make the first step when entering the RV. That “soft spot” kept spreading to every place we walk. By soft, I mean it’s about like walking on a stiff sponge. The spot just inside the door “sags” about ¼” when I put my weight on the floor. The “sag” can be seen from the underside of the RV.

As usual, spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out what was going on.

The floor was still very solid whereever we didn't walk. Very solid inches away from the walls, 3-6" away from the cabinets and inside the storage bins, etc.

I took a core sample of the floor just inside the kitchen cabinets and inside the rear storage bin. AH HA, the floor is just a sandwich of a thin membrane, maybe 1/16” or so thick, on the top and bottom of about 1” of foam (Styrofoam?).

The core sample looked just like Styrofoam from a beer cooler. I was expecting some type of stiffening material to be in the floor. That's sure not the case.

I took the RV to RV Renovators in Mesa. With Bob looking on, I stepped on the floor. Got that “whoa, that’s not right. You need to call THOR”.

Well, I made my call to THOR service. Of course, the floor is no longer in warranty. I was told I could take the RV back to Elkhart and they would put top covering on my floor. No way was I going to put another 4K miles on the RV sending it back to Elkhart, AGAIN.

THOR service said J&L RV Repair in Fontana California would be the place to call.

I placed the call to J&L and got to speak with Joe, the owner. We discussed the issue and I made an appointment to take our RV to Fontana, CA.

To cut a long story short, J&L reinforced the floor from the underside. Soft areas were stiffened by securing ½” plywood (glued to the bottom of the floor) with angle iron cross pieces holding the plywood in place.

I would say that the floor is about 90 to 95% as solid as it was when it was new. The softness that we still feel could possibly be caused by the compression of the “loose” Styrofoam particles in the floor “sandwich”. Just my guess.

J&L was not able to support the floor just in front of the bathroom sink due to the placement of the black water tank.

J&L is a very busy shop. This job was scheduled 2 months out from my first call to them. The job was estimated to take 2 days to complete. The job was completed right on schedule. J&L gets a 5 star rating from me.

We are glad to have the floor close to being back like new. Just still very disappointed to have to keep fixing things with our THOR.