How to fix lock/unlock system?

svaric2

Member
2005 158" SHC

I have an aftermarket remote lock system installed on the van.Viper 5806V

The problem (I believe this happens for all sprinters):
When I press lock or unlock (doesn't matter) on the key, the wire there is a toggle wire hit the button once and the locks move in the opposite place they are, do it again and they just move again. You dont know if they locked or unlocked. All it does correctly is arm the security system (when lock is pressed) to sound the alarm if the doors are open, or if van is hit etc. This configuration is as effective as having one button on the remote to just toggle the locks. I never know for certain what state the van is in when pressing either button. As you can see, this can be a problem because I can approach my "armed" van after pressing lock and the door will toggle to unlock, so pulling on the handle would open the door and sound the alarm.

On my dad's nvc3, his remote locking (also viper) works as it would on any modern-day car. You can spam lock as many times as you want and the doors will remain locked every time. Unlock, conversely, would unlock all the doors in one press, everytime.

Seems like a simple idea, but I read a thread by a user here who mentions taking apart the CTM from under the driver's seat and soldering 2 wires from there to his aftermarket remote system but I don't know if this addresses my problem.

I called the guy who installed the system on my van to see if he knows of some fix, to which he responds "the whole system would have to be rewired for that to work". Don't know if BS or not.

A fix for this would make the T1N an order of magnitude more functional and reliable.
 

Patrick of M

2005 T1N 2500 (NA spec)
Stock key has 2 buttons and three possible 4 commands
1. Unlock driver= Press unlock button 1x and four way lights flash once
2. Unlock driver + all other doors= Press unlock button 2x (sometimes 5-6 times the system is slow to recognize that command) no lights confirmation
3. Lock all doors= Press lock button
4. Lock all doors and flash four way lights to confirm all doors locked = Press luck button 2x lights flash 3 times

That is how my stock system works, I don’t understand your post about the wire etc...correctly.
The OEM system has a logic of sorts where it won’t lock and flash 3 times if all the doors are not fully closed making contact etc.

I’m guessing that the alarm should only arm on command #4.

In your case making sure you OEM system is working (all door contacts are functioning properly etc) would be a good starting point.
I don’t know what your installer did , but I would guess he did not undo the OEM locking logic, but the logic is different from other cars I have had so maybe he doesn’t get it?
 
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220629

Well-known member
Patrick's description is what my 2006 does.

I'v also noticed that if a door isn't fully closed (slider) or a contact is faulty, the amber lights will flash once and [usually] I get the clack/clack, lock/unlock cycle.

Does the Viper system still activate the amber lights? If yes, watch the lights for 3 blinks that verifies a locking complete cycle.

:cheers: vic
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
My 2005 differs slightly from Patrick's description:
If i press my remote LOCK button ONCE (and the doors are closed), they all lock AND my exterior lights do the 3-flashes.

I don't have to press LOCK more than once for that 3-flash behavior.

I can also "test" my situation by pressing the LOCK button ONCE at any time (for example, an hour later) ... the 3-flash happens.

--dick
 

220629

Well-known member
My 2005 differs slightly from Patrick's description:
If i press my remote LOCK button ONCE (and the doors are closed), they all lock AND my exterior lights do the 3-flashes.

...

--dick
Good catch. :thumbup:

My 2006 also only needs one press to get the doors to lock and 3 flashes.

I sometimes use the 3 flash response to verify the 2006 doors locked after parking the 2004 for the night. After any length of time (days) a 2006 lock verification command results in a lighter clack sound and 3 flashes vs the heavy locks set and 3 flashes.

:cheers: vic
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
From your description it sounds like your installer tied into the lock/unlock button on the dash console, which *toggles* the lock state without flashing the amber signal lamps.

The T1N doesn’t have discrete “lock” and “unlock” buttons, so most after-market fobs have no convenient switch circuit to tie into. The RKE signals are validated by the SKREEM module, then a lock/unlock message is sent to the Central Timer Module via the canbus, and the CTM pulses the door lock actuators, then senses the result.

The post you reference about soldering into the CTM circuit board is (seems?) the most direct technique, and maintains the factory RKE function.

A less direct option would be to bridge the CTM’s lock driver output circuits at the harness using a custom-made driver/relay board, then power the door lock actuators in response to the Viper’s lock/unlock signal wires, but it’s simpler to solder into the CTM and use its existing circuitry.

-dave
 

svaric2

Member
My OEM key fobs are not working at all. Red light blinks, meaning there is power, but no response even when inches away from the antenna. All fuses under seat and steering wheel are working, contact points are sanded clean. Any recommendations?
 

BrennWagon

He’s just this guy, you know?
My OEM key fobs are not working at all. Red light blinks, meaning there is power, but no response even when inches away from the antenna. All fuses under seat and steering wheel are working, contact points are sanded clean. Any recommendations?
The fob transmitter cycles frequencies every time you press the button. The lock controller will stop responding to fob inputs if they get too far out of synchronization. This can be resolved by sending keys and I believe the SKREM unit to SOS diagnostics for programming
 

220629

Well-known member
SOS Diagnostics is a good suggestion.

... Any recommendations?
I think that I've seen FOB check stations in auto parts stores. They will detect whether the remote FOB is actually transmitting a signal at all. That may provide a bit more information as to the status of your FOB(s) vs the built in LED.


:cheers: vic
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
In the T1N, the documented cycle is that if you press a fob's buttons more than 256 times without the Sprinter "hearing" it, you'll lose sync and that fob won't be acknowledged.
(it's sending a "rolling code", not different frequencies)

People with small children that like to repetitively press buttons have encountered this.

As for the hook-something-up-that-needs-separate-buttons, one (whacko) way to achieve the goal would be to use a spare fob .. the 3rd party device would be wired to effectively "push" the fob's distinct Lock and Unlock buttons.

Kind'a like this:

DoorBell.jpg

... which allows the original exterior doorbell button to trigger a multi-repeater wireless door annunciator network.
The surplus circuit board is only providing a diode network and relay.

--dick
 

kjg912

2006 T1N 2500
In the T1N, the documented cycle is that if you press a fob's buttons more than 256 times without the Sprinter "hearing" it, you'll lose sync and that fob won't be acknowledged.
(it's sending a "rolling code", not different frequencies)

People with small children that like to repetitively press buttons have encountered this.

Is there a way to re-sync the fob without taking out the Skreem and sending it in? My only key fob also blinks red and has no effect on the locks! Someone said to disconnect the battery but will this work to re-set the RKE system to the fob?
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
Is there a way to re-sync the fob without taking out the Skreem and sending it in? My only key fob also blinks red and has no effect on the locks! Someone said to disconnect the battery but will this work to re-set the RKE system to the fob?
To the best of my knowledge, that won't perform a resync.
BUT ... there can be many causes for the lock-out, and disconnecting the battery is free.

It certainly can't hurt to try it (and report back).

good luck (and dig up your radio code if you still have the original radio)
((the radio code files are here: http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/ ))
--dick
 

svaric2

Member
An update to this situation (still no solution): The gentleman who installed the aftermarket security system said it will work if I replace the lock mechanisms on the driver and passenger door. He showed me that the inner door handle does not push in and that this is why my locking/unlocking is not working. It moves a little bit when I press lock, but jumps back out to normal position. I tried to clean the mechanism and lube the cable with no luck. Any tips?
 

99sport

Well-known member
I had a similar problem with my passenger door that refused to lock - as soon as the door locked the actuator would unlock the door (it was impossible to lock the door). I ordered a new lock actuator, but once I had the latch out to replace the actuator I cleaned everything wth carb cleaner and lubed it and now that door works perfectly with my 15 year old actuator. So you might try removing the latch and cleaning it until it operates smoothly.
 

VinceP

2005 158" High Roof Pass.
I ran into the same issue with my Remote locks, except on all the 3 original fobs, one is still working. The 2 others seem to have lost sync, which would make sense with dick's comment as the previous owner of my van has 6 kids.....

SOS Diagnostics confirmed to me via email that they can't "re-sync" the fobs, that they are VIN specific to the SKREEM/RKE Module....

Not sure where to go from here. If anyone has experienced that and was able to have the fobs re-sync, I would love to hear the story....

I'm now very nervous to lose my only Remote functional fob.....

Vince
 

svaric2

Member
I had a similar problem with my passenger door that refused to lock - as soon as the door locked the actuator would unlock the door (it was impossible to lock the door). I ordered a new lock actuator, but once I had the latch out to replace the actuator I cleaned everything wth carb cleaner and lubed it and now that door works perfectly with my 15 year old actuator. So you might try removing the latch and cleaning it until it operates smoothly.
I tried cleaning (brake cleaner) but it's not easy to get in all the nooks and crannies of the mechanism. I'm able to get all of the parts moving, nothing is noticeably gunked stuck, but I don't know how smooth it has to operate. Were you able to push the inner handle in without it jumping back out after cleaning?
 

bcman

Active member
svaric, are you saying the front doors will power unlock after pressing the lock button on the center console, or after manually pushing in the interior door handle?

The Sprinter's lock controls have this weird programming where if a lock command is issued by any means (center console button, key fob, or manual locking), it will check the status of each door lock, and if one of the doors remains unlocked, it will power unlock all doors. If you immediately re-lock manually, it will lock, unlock, and lock again. This can be triggered by one of the locks physically not moving into locked position, or the circuitry that senses the lock state isn't completing the circuit. It's commonly caused by weak contacts in the rear doors or sliding door. Note that these contacts are not the same switch that activates the dome lights.

If you're physically pushing one of the front door interior handles into the locked position to activate the power locks, and the power locks then immediately unlock all doors, my guess would be that the problem is in the sliding or rear doors, not the front doors.
 

220629

Well-known member
...

The Sprinter's lock controls have this weird programming ...
Yep.

My son picked us up in the 2006 for a family event. I was on the passenger bench. The lock stem in the sliding door appeared bent so I depressed it to check the operation. As I operated the slide door lock mechanically, all the rest of the doors electrically clacked locked at the same time.

I didn't expect that.

:cheers: vic
 

99sport

Well-known member
I tried cleaning (brake cleaner) but it's not easy to get in all the nooks and crannies of the mechanism. I'm able to get all of the parts moving, nothing is noticeably gunked stuck, but I don't know how smooth it has to operate. Were you able to push the inner handle in without it jumping back out after cleaning?
Yes. Cleaning and lubricating the passenger door latch / mechanism (after removing it from the door) allowed the handle to stay locked without jumping back out.
 

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