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Old 01-11-2017, 03:18 PM   #1
Aqua Puttana
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Default Engine Oil MB 229.51 or 229.52 best for T1N's?

MB 229.51 and MB 229.52 are said to be backward compatible for T1N engines, but even ignoring the generally higher price point is it the best choice?

Ravenol Oil published an overview of the MB specs/tests. Thanks goes to Boatworksjon.

Some selected quotes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenol Newsletter

MB 229.52 Multigrade service engine oil Low SPAsh

Engine oil with low sulphur,
phosphorus and sulphated ash content
- Low SPAsh.
The specification MB 229.52 is
based on the standard MB 229.51,
although it has higher requirements for
oxidation stability and fuel consumption
reduction . 229 .52 is primarily
tailored to the new BLUETEC engines.

MB 229.51 Multigrade service engine oil Low SPAsh

Engine oil with low sulphur, phosphorus
and sulphated ash content - Low
SPAsh.
All engine oils with this approval are
so-called "Low SPAsh" multigrade
engine oils. They all have a lower
proportion of sulphur (S), phosphorus
(P) and sulphated ash (SA). Diesel
engines with a particulate filter (DPF)
primarily require these low-ash engine
oils. In addition, MB 229.51 promises
better fuel consumption compared
with MB 229.5.
The following engines are compatible
with MB 229.51:
Petrol engines: M 156 (only SAE 0W-
40 or 5W-40), M 132 (ROW), M 266,
271.
Diesel engines without a particulate
filter: OM 640, 642, 646, 611 in
BR9xx (Sprinter), 660.
Diesel engines without a particulate
filter: OM 629, 640, 642, 646,
660 (EU3/EU4 with unregulated
particulate filters).

Ravenol VMS SAE 5W-30 COMPACT:

* Compared with 229.1/229.3/229.5: lower sulphur, phosphorous and ash forming content, better compatibility with DPF.
* Compared with 229.1/229.3: more environmentally friendly, increased potential fuel savings.
* 229.52 backwards compatible with 229.51, backwards compatible with 229.31: in each case the requirements are more stringent compared with older specifications 229.1/229.3/229.5
* 229.52/229.51/229.31 are therefore not backwards compatible with 229.5/229.3/229.1
* 229.52: currently has the most stringent requirements
* The engines are installed in vehicles including the current ML and GL models, as well as R, S, and G class vehicles.
...
Does better fuel economy come with the price of lesser T1N engine service life?

Note that Ravenol didn't include the OM612 or OM647 engines under MB229.51. Interestingly they did include the Sprinter OM611 engine (also an early 4 cyl CDI design).

The complete Ravenol MB testing information.

oil.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenol Newsletter

* 229.52/229.51/229.31 are therefore not backwards compatible with 229.5/229.3/229.1
What oil does a Mercedes dealership put in your T1N?

I have my thoughts, but there should be enough information for others to decide.

vic

Added:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
...
I find that Lubrizol is a good general information source for engine oils. This link has info about some of the newer emissions regulations as relates to oil.

https://passenger.lubrizoladditives3...compatibility/

Lubrizol has some great pages on the ACEA oil specifications.

This E9 overview has some info about SAPS "Note 1 : SAPS refers to Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur, the levels of which are often restricted in the latest performance specifications."
http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/E908.html

And the C3 spec (which includes MB229.51?)
http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/C308.html

https://www.lubrizol.com/engineoilad...apers/acea.pdf
...
Mercedes BeVo Specification Listing

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevoli...?language_id=1

Added:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindenengineering View Post
...

When it comes to the older 903 and 904's [T1N 5 cylinder] we simply fill with 10 [1.0?... 9.5 is a T1N fill] quart jugs of Rotella T6 [5w-40 Full Synthetic Blue Jug] or Valvoline Blue [15w-40], same as our policy on Cummins fills using exclusively Valvoline.
For the same reasons MB folk like seeing MB bottles and labels !

... Dennis
Added 20180726

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
...
Actually Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 Full Synthetic (blue jug) has a good TBN. I don't know where it may be lacking except that MB BeVo takes off T1N points because it is MB228.31 spec. Which is interesting because MB says that the MB229.51, .52 which lacks some of the same properties is fine.
*****
My latest opinion for T1N engine oil.

The engine oil needed [for T1N's] isn't rocket science anymore. Modern small displacement turbo diesel engines are no longer a new special beast. There are many, many oil manufacturers that produce quality turbo diesel engine oil. Many don't submit to MB for their BeVo list official specification. Lacking a DPF and other more recent emissions controls as the T1N does, any good quality turbo diesel engine oil of the proper viscosity for your areas of operation will be fine.

I put my money where my mouth is. I've used many different brands of engine oil in my T1N. I look for MB spec and ACEA class on the labels, but the most important factor for me is viscosity. I look for 0w-40 or 5w-40 with 5w-40 being the more common that I find.

If my operation area allowed 15w-40 viscosity oil that would be included in my selections.

Actually I sometimes top off to 9 quarts with the 2 ea. gallon jugs of 5w-40 by using 1 quart of 15w-40 oil. Oh the humanity!

vic
Worrying about draining the last little bits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Broken record here.

Remember that if you maintain your fluid changes to the proper schedules the removed fluid is toxic waste per the EPA, but it is still good serviceable product for your vehicle. Worrying about getting the last drops out when you keep up on your maintenance is a complete waste of time and effort.

Generally the fluids need to be changed out to renew depleted ADDITIVES. The base fluid is still fine.

vic
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:01 AM   #2
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Default Re: Engine Oil MB 229.51 or 229.52 best for T1N's?

Here's another person I'd bet wouldn't recommend using MB229.51 or MB229.52 spec oil in your T1N.

http://www.stephensservice.com/bluet...ssuesproblems/

Thanks goes to Geriakt for posting the link in NCV3.

vic

Added!
The above link is provided for general information only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
A point of clarification for the information link provided above.

First. It isn't what the manufacturer recommends. Following the oil selection guidelines provided by Stephens Service may void the warranty.

The claims of sludged up engines using MB recommended engine oil haven't been supported by posts/threads here on Sprinter-source. Perhaps the problems relate to other model Mercedes products?

vic

P.S. - I personally do agree that Mother Mercedes is over protective of her babies with BeVo oil recommendations. There are diesel oils not found on the BeVo list that are good products.
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Old 01-16-2017, 01:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: MB 229.51 or 229.52 best for T1N's?

That great info, but what was the last and best mb spec # for a t1n in 06. Purchased Amsoil euro Car Formula w/MB approved spec 229.51.... Uneasy about using it due to low SAPs.
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: MB 229.51 or 229.52 best for T1N's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ktm 300 View Post
That great info,
Quote:
but what was the last and best mb spec # for a t1n in 06.
Purchased Amsoil euro Car Formula w/MB approved spec 229.51.... Uneasy about using it due to low SAPs.
the 229.5 spec # for the t1n .

For some perspective; the 229.5 spec is also used in hi-proformance engines that can exceed 7000rpm.
- Porsche, corvette, mustang.

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Old 01-16-2017, 03:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: Engine Oil MB 229.51 or 229.52 best for T1N's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJPJ View Post
the 229.5 spec # for the t1n .

For some perspective; the 229.5 spec is also used in hi-proformance engines that can exceed 7000rpm.
- Porsche, corvette, mustang.

Most would agree with you, especially the people who favor brand name Mobil 1 0w - 40 Euro Formula. I don't disagree that MB229.5 is good oil. I use MB229.5 spec oil in my 2004 and 2006... but not exclusively. I have also used MB228.3, MB228.31, MB228.5, etc.

The vehicle engines cited above are petrol fueled. There have been oil discussions which suggest that MB228.3 and MB228.5 spec oils were specifically developed for diesel use so may be equal to or better than MB229.5 for our 2.7L 5 cylinder diesels. A search in the Aussie section should get those discussions.

The fact that MB doesn't recommend MB228.31 spec oil for our 2.7L engines kinda supports the thought of not using the newer formulation low SAP MB229.51 or MB229.52 oils in our T1N's. That said, Mercedes absolutely supports that MB229.51 and MB229.52 oil is fine for a T1N even though the emissions control specific design properties are not needed by the 2.7L diesel engines.

Many owners have reported using MB228.31 Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 fully synthetic (blue jug) with good results.

As I mentioned earlier, I have my thoughts. Others should decide based upon the information available.

vic
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Old 01-16-2017, 04:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: MB 229.51 or 229.52 best for T1N's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Many owners have reported using MB228.31 Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 fully synthetic (blue jug) with good results.
Frito has 115k miles on nothing but Rotella T6.
Mobil 1 difficult to source here.
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Old 02-21-2017, 12:06 AM   #7
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Default Re: Engine Oil MB 229.51 or 229.52 best for T1N's?

I have 100 000 miles in my sprinter 2006 with mobil delvac 1300 super, 15w-40 and i have no problems. This oil is 229.31. the next oil change i will use a syntetic oil but here in Mexico i can not find variety of oils. Here we only have options like Pentosin and Febi. Here in the south of Mexico we a very hot weather.
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Old 02-23-2017, 02:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: Engine Oil MB 229.51 or 229.52 best for T1N's?

Thicker oil eg. - 5w-40 vs 5w-30 may not be as critical as making certain the oil is thin enough at cold start.

An interesting comment from Blackstone Labs as to thin oil.

Thanks goes to Geob for the PDF.

Feb_17_Engine_Newsletter.pdf

vic

Added:

The point of posting the Blackstone information is to make people aware that proper MB spec Xw-30 weight oil can be a fine choice, not that Xw-40 oil is bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Where is this going?

One article by an oil testing professional doesn't negate all of the testing Mercedes Benz has done over decades. Everyone loves to quote the Operator Manuals and BeVo if someone suggests straying from the doctrines. Is that to change?

So now some comments by one person have the forum questioning the MB recommended oils that have given multiple hundreds of thousands miles engine life. It isn't like our Sprinter engines are grenading.

What I got from the article.

If your manufacturer recommends thinner oil than what you may be comfortable with, don't sweat it. The thin oils work fine.

What I didn't get from the article.

Do not use the 5w-40 MB proper spec oil anymore because it will ruin your engine. (It has been fine for the life of many, many vans.)

vic

P.S. - To be clear, my comments above are about viscosity, not additives. I still don't feel MB229.51 or MB229.52 oil is the best choice for my T1N, but that's an additive package thing.
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Old 02-23-2017, 03:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: Engine Oil MB 229.51 or 229.52 best for T1N's?

I have ben using Shell Rotella T 15 w 40. Wally world has it .
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Old 03-02-2017, 05:52 AM   #10
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Default Re: Engine Oil MB 229.51 or 229.52 best for T1N's?

I use old bacon grease mixed with diesel and tranny fluid and have over 400k trouble free miles.
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